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Old 07-02-2017, 02:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JRXTIN View Post
If XTIN is too hard to be the next big thing, oh well, I'll just have to live with it. While I can appreciate the finer things in life, they aren't must-haves
It's not 'too hard' in the way a math problem -- one that has a solution but is complex -- can be hard. This is confusing.

I don't know if 'finer things' refers to writing a cogent narrative or being able to buy a speed boat in this context but to be sure, write the good book first. Then worry about how rich it's going to make you.

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I would have to say this is mistaken.
If YOU know what it means, great. But WE don't. So it seems to be devoid of meaning. The title is comprised of individual letters that make neither a word nor an acronym, correct? And nobody -- I don't care how into the material they are -- is going to want to pronounce EX-TEE-EYE-EN every time they tell someone about their favorite book. You must understand that.

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Let's not get too hung up on the rules, but if that's what it's going to come to...I haven't posted in the Writer's Showcase.
Two members give you an honest critique and it makes you want to run from the thread? Don't. Stay. Post more.

You haven't violated any rules and no one is saying you have. Hiding in the Writer's Showcase doesn't change anything (and nobody posts there )
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:00 AM   #62
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Patreon.com/xtin

Watch a couple sweet promotional videos on my YouTube channel -

Promo 2

Promo 1

I've been building up the rewards on my Patreon, currently at 51 including the first XTIN graphic novel (230 pages), the first installment of Spider Princess Haki (13 pages), and the related comedic manga Extinction Level Event (thirty pages). I've also begun working on the art book "Parthenogenesis_01" which will collect the pre-XTIN artwork that led up to XTIN, but which is definitely not XTIN.

I experienced some Patreon growth last month, gaining three patrons but possibly losing one. I'm going to push to gain patrons because if I'm only able to draw one page a month REINCARRION may take twenty years to finish. I'm not compromising anything about XTIN so it will just have to update infrequently until there is more support for it.
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:20 AM   #63
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You like to put dark stuff at the edges of your panels, and since the borders are black it all bleeds together into a kind of vignetted thing -- but I don't think you're doing that on purpose. Are you?

I just realized that XTIN is the sound of the first two syllables of the word 'extinction,' minus the c sound. Is it important to you that readers pronounce each letter? Because that isn't intuitive.

Did you write on Patreon about not compromising the project or did you write that here for us? What do you mean by that?
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:21 AM   #64
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That's o.k., it isn't meant to be all ages.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, but I'll take it at face value. I believe your comic will be confusing, both visually and in terms of narrative, for all ages. Every time you post a page from this, I'm thinking "what the heck is happening here!?" I can't tell what kind of environment the characters are in (sometimes I think they're floating in space, but I dunno'), I often have no idea what some objects are supposed to be, and I definitely can't piece together an understandable story out of this. I understand there is a guru with a baby, and he's trying to build a better world for the baby by proving a philosophical point. And somehow dragons play into this. Other than that, such as what is happening immediately on page... no real idea.


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Have you read the first book? This isn't episodic. While I've tried to make it accessible to the new reader, it's a serialized story and the stuff that happened in the first book matters.
No. I think you're misunderstanding me some. I barely understand ANYTHING that is happening on page. Yes, the visuals are interesting, but this interesting quickly turns to tiring, and this tiring turns to uninteresting when you can't make sense of anything that is happening. It isn't a matter of whether I've read the first book or not. Let me show you something.

Here is a completely random comic page I pulled off the internet, which I have never seen prior to this:



Okay, what's happening here is kind of weird when you jump right in the middle of it, but I can tell you what is happening. Superman is fighting some criminals in flame proof suits. He defeats them. The cops come to take the criminals away, and then Superman talks to a dog.

I did not read this story, or the page before this one or the issue before this one, but I can tell you what is happening on this page. With your comic... I really have no idea what's happening. It isn't a matter of reading the previous story. With all due respect, it's a matter of you not being successful at clearly communicating what is happening on page, which is probably the worst thing you can do in a comic. Or if not the worst it is very high up there. It's like bad web design. A website may have a bunch of really flashy and great pictures everywhere, but if the text is hard to read, and it is difficult to understand how to navigate the site, and the pictures are literally covering up key parts of the navigation, the design falls apart.


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I disagree on that one . Dune wouldn't be better without the Kwisatz Haderach or the Harkonnen, and even kids are able to learn names like "Pachirisu" and "Yajirobi" when they watch Pokemon or Dragonball.
I see. But mixed in with those names are a lot of names like Diglett, Butterfree, Weedle, Voltorb, Squirtle, Sandshrew, Geodude and so on. These are very easy names to pronounce, identify, and remember. Not every Pokemon is named someone like Yasoreomembo, or some such.

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I've had one in the past. I'd rather let someone else fend off the hackers and the spammers.
I have ran sites for years and have not had a problem with hackers to my knowledge (knock on wood). As for spammers, there are things you can do to deal with them. But I won't try to convince you if getting a website is just something you don't want to do.
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:11 PM   #65
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Pencils by Curt Swan
Inks by Bob Oksner
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:24 PM   #66
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Patreon

Gumroad

Watch a couple sweet promotional videos on my YouTube channel -
Promo Vid 2

Promo Vid 1

The Gumroad store is reopened (gumroad.com/jrxtin). I've had a couple people sign up for Patreon to get XTIN: The Dragon's Dreamworld, but I can tell it's not a popular option. You get access to far, far more stuff through Patreon, but you have to wait and wait and wait for it, and who wants that? I've been seeing slow but steady growth for the last few months, so I'm guessing there's a few more sales out there. Hopefully enough to cover Gumroad's fee. I've also put the first issue of REINCARRION up, at a higher resolution and with bonus pages from the first attempt at the story; and I've put up the Extinction Level Event one shot. ELE is nothing like XTIN, but it's sort of related. It's a comedic story that takes place within the same universe. I wonder what it would look like if it wasn't a comedy? The poor hero would be even more broken.

Page 6 is one of those pages that just would not go down. Panel 2 took much longer to draw than it should have, and I rewrote this over and over again. A kind of oppositional banter is developing between the guru and Mina. At this point the idea is raw and I don't know how comedic it's going to be, or how to write their comedic style. I don't want to be in a "The Force Awakens" situation where the characters are delivering lines in a comedic style from the present day. That really stuck out in a bad way. Would the comedy of the cultures in XTIN even come across as comedy to us? I'll get a handle on it somehow.

If anyone's interested, here's a book I illustrated earlier in the year - Link

Except for the covers, which I did not illustrate. Or the colors. It's certainly strange to see my work colored.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:37 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Neil Allen View Post
I can't tell what kind of environment the characters are in (sometimes I think they're floating in space, but I dunno'),
Here's the issue 1 cover -



And here's a couple pages from issue 1 -





Surely it's clear that they're in space.

There are things that aren't clear about the page you posted. Where are they in the first two panels? Why are there fists coming out of the flames? Oh, I see, someone is flying around in the flames. Maybe that's Superman. Good thing I already know Superman can fly. I haven't seen him use an attack like that before, but I know his powers well enough to assume it's possible. I'm sure everything would make more sense if I'd read the previous pages.
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Old 07-20-2017, 01:38 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by JRXTIN View Post





Surely it's clear that they're in space.

There are things that aren't clear about the page you posted. Where are they in the first two panels? Why are there fists coming out of the flames? Oh, I see, someone is flying around in the flames. Maybe that's Superman. Good thing I already know Superman can fly. I haven't seen him use an attack like that before, but I know his powers well enough to assume it's possible. I'm sure everything would make more sense if I'd read the previous pages.
It's clear they're in space yeah. Everything floating in space is totally strange and offered without explanation. Your environments are totally fantastic, created from whole cloth, unlike anywhere one can travel on Earth right? Spaceship cathedrals with wings made of bones? Well how the fuck can anyone know what the characters are doing, where they are, how they're interacting with their environment etc if NOBODY ever talks about those things? Why are they in space? What kind of ships are those? What's inside? Do we ever SEE the insides of those ships and stuff? Cathedrals in space might look pretty cool inside, and show the reader what the people inside those ships do and for what reasons they do those things. Your pages are confusing because I don't often know which characters I'm meant to care about, sometimes even panel-to-panel it's tough to track who is who. Problematic. You aren't keen to hear critique either and seem to have no intention of addressing these big issues with an equal and appropriate effort. You seem willing to ignore these problems or perhaps don't see them as problems in that way I do. Which?

To whit: your example about having to know Superman in order to read the old page posted below is thin b/c color tends to keep continuity across panels even if you don't know how or why the guy in red/blue/yellow is able to do what he's doing. You still recognize it's him, color does that job. Your pages are b/w and aren't going to be colored. That means they have to be even CLEARER than comics made for color.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:15 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by JRXTIN View Post
Page 6 is one of those pages that just would not go down. Panel 2 took much longer to draw than it should have, and I rewrote this over and over again. A kind of oppositional banter is developing between the guru and Mina. At this point the idea is raw and I don't know how comedic it's going to be, or how to write their comedic style. I don't want to be in a "The Force Awakens" situation where the characters are delivering lines in a comedic style from the present day. That really stuck out in a bad way. Would the comedy of the cultures in XTIN even come across as comedy to us? I'll get a handle on it somehow.

If anyone's interested, here's a book I illustrated earlier in the year - Link
The vampire book looks great! Shots, environments, characters. Everything clear, far and away more digestible than XTIN.

Re: Star Wars VII. I think you're referencing the Poe 'who talks first' dialogue and I get what you're trying to avoid: overly contemporary dialogue that doesn't fit the tone of the narrative. But that really only applies to stuff with an established tone. There are six Star Wars movies and nobody talks that way to anyone, so it feels out of place when Poe does it. Feels like Star Wars filmmakers saw Guardians of the Galaxy! Which they did. And works in that story because it's new, they could do whatever they wanted and they decided to keep things colloquial. Helps that the main character is from 80s Earth so we get all his references.

Your comics are also not well established in the reader's mind. We don't know XTIN like Star Wars; therefore your characters CAN feel like contemporary, colloquial people out of the gate. Keep it clear, keep it simple, keep it as visual as possible. Your characters are aliens, they won't have translatable inside jokes or slang that a reader will understand, so discard those hopelessly dense elements. You don't need to overthink it. Communicate what YOU think is funny, tell a funny story where funny things happen (not just relying on dialogue to sell it) and the reader will get onboard despite the alienness of the costumes and environments and situations.
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Old 07-22-2017, 03:53 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by JRXTIN View Post
Here's the issue 1 cover -



And here's a couple pages from issue 1 -





Surely it's clear that they're in space.

There are things that aren't clear about the page you posted. Where are they in the first two panels? Why are there fists coming out of the flames? Oh, I see, someone is flying around in the flames. Maybe that's Superman. Good thing I already know Superman can fly. I haven't seen him use an attack like that before, but I know his powers well enough to assume it's possible. I'm sure everything would make more sense if I'd read the previous pages.
Well ... honestly, no. At least not to me. The cover looks like the characters are in Hell. And with the pages you posted, it looks like it could be space ... or just a starry sky. Perhaps if the comic was colored, it would be easier for me to tell for sure. Not that I'm saying the black and white deal is a problem, but when that is all you have to represent things, I think one should strive all the more to make sure the idea of the image is clear. Or, if need be, make it clear in the text what is happening. It would likely be clear it was space to me if I saw larger heavenly bodies and things like asteroids. I'm not saying you need to or should have those things, I'm just saying if I saw stuff like that I would have a good idea that the characters were in space.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:39 PM   #71
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so ive been watching this thread for a while and seeing the back and forth between you and everyone, I figured I add a thought or two.

first off, I can certainly appreciate doing a big project because YOU want to do it. for no other reason that you want to see it brought into creation. I respect that.

I do agree that this is a tough ass read. and it SEEMS that you don't really want to hear it.
I don't know for sure tho, I don't know you and your interests and goals with this. if this IS done for you and you alone, then sure, it can be any way you want it to be.

I personally am working on stuff that is for ME in one respect, in that its what I want to see done. even if no one else does. "I" do. BUT, I also absolutely want to share it with people. to have my work seen and judged for whether its seen as good or not. I am interested in knowing where people rate my work.
does it make sense? is it clear? do people get the point? hell..can they make heads or tails of my story and art at all?
THAT I want to know, regardless of if I'm doing it for my self or not.

but that's me, and MY interests.

as for your work here.. its seems clear to me that you have a vision, and a goal and I love that.

but its a tough ass read, for the reasons many , especially Triano has listed.

some very basic things..like you having SO many, if not al,l of the borders a solid black line. it makes it seem like there is not ANY separation in the panels, and all the images look like they are supposed to be one big weird image and it doesn't make sense.

and it interrupts the flow of the read.

and that's bad. it needs to FLOW easy. and this does not.

I understand that it may be clear as hell to YOU. of course it is. you are the artist. you constructed this. your eye can track this. the casual reader seriously cant.

and that could be costing you...well..readers. and you are doing the patreon thing. you NEED readers.

something as simple as making the panels separate and clear, in my opinion, would help.

but that's just me and what I see based on what I like and would do, as a fellow artist who LOVES sequential storytelling and takes this art form seriously.

simplifying it so everyone else can read it helps you, it doesn't hinder you.

I'm sure there must be a balance where you can keep your artistic vision and still incorporate some of the feedback you are getting.

but in the end.. this is YOUR work. what you want to do with it is no ones business but your own. and I do appreciate your dedication.

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Old 08-16-2017, 05:02 PM   #72
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Well said, Rob
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:15 PM
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:44 PM   #73
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Very imaginative. Visually energetic. Yet, it plays visual havoc with the eyes.

Can you post the pencils of some of these very same pages?

My eyes favor the narrative boxes over the visuals on display, yet all things considered, the art is visually engaging. So, it seems to me that it is the inking that my eyes are taking issue with.

The front cover yields a certain crispness and clarity (for the most part) that the black and white pages can't compete with.

Is it available for purchase in PDF format (if I missed it posted, already)? There's not enough on display here to judge the work as a whole, and individual pages can be misleading.
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:59 AM   #74
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I like the designs. I love it. I like the imagery as whole. I would like to have a writer as Stan Lee (or in his style) re-writing dialogues on top these images giving them the sense and coherency a good script need on facing the audience.
As it is, this script is very cryptic, meaning only the author knows the meaning of everything or what happens on it, but not the reader who is the ultimate receptor of the work. IMHO.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:21 AM   #75
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XTIN updates are going to be infrequent and irregular for the near and mid future. I'm currently drawing two other graphic novels, probably have a third one lined up, and I'm occasionally doing work as a background artist. I did the background on a Lady Death cover a couple weeks ago. It's not a real big deal but now I can say I've done a small amount on a book a few people have heard of. As things stand now I've got around a 2 year backlog of work. When I get through it I should be in a much better position to work on XTIN, or another book. I'm going to finish up REINCARRION and Spider Princess Haki at least. I think the webcomic format is not good for me though, since I tend to do stories that don't read well via weekly or monthly updates. I don't know what the answer is there, we'll see how things shake out over the next two years.

I'm going to consider this thread closed. For the time being XTIN will update on SmackJeeves, The Duck, Comic Fury, Deviant Art, and Patreon.


Charles - XTIN is entirely digital, so no pencils. I don't think I've pencilled anything in at least a decade.

You can get the first graphic novel and the first issue of REINCARRION from Gumroad or Patreon -

https://www.patreon.com/xtin

https://gumroad.com/jrxtin

The first graphic novel is much more violent and gory, so don't get it unless you can handle extreme body horror. Not many pages go by without someone being tortured, especially in the beginning. If you don't read the first book though there's little reason to read any other XTIN book.
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