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Old 09-03-2017, 05:02 PM   #16
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I just...I suspect that you think you are better than you actually are.

I would suggest objective assessment and a smidge of humbleness...
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Old 09-03-2017, 05:11 PM   #17
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I just...I suspect that you think you are better than you actually are.

I would suggest objective assessment and a smidge of humbleness...
I'm setting my goals high doing this script. I plan on doing my best on about 100 pages, then pay for private tuition. I haven't sent these out to comic company's as I know I have alot to work on. I actually am not that confident in my abilities at present, but the past few months said that I should just go for it and have fun. Put in my 10,000 hours as they say.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by kevinharte36 View Post
I'm setting my goals high doing this script. I plan on doing my best on about 100 pages, then pay for private tuition. I haven't sent these out to comic company's as I know I have alot to work on. I actually am not that confident in my abilities at present, but the past few months said that I should just go for it and have fun. Put in my 10,000 hours as they say.
Set your goals higher and do less pages; volume means nothing if the pages are just ok. Your pages are just ok. Framing, pacing, perspective and over-dependence on stiff photo ref make them not quite professional. You should just go for it and have fun but also understand that putting in your 10,000 hours -- or about 20 years -- isn't overly easy and rarely too fun. I don't know what private tuition means but if you're going to respond to critique in that setting the way you've done here? With contempt? Then fuck it, I suggest skipping that tutor/college program altogether and instead investing in a PS4. Far more fun. If you want to work? Comport yourself thus.
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:33 PM   #19
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PS4... what about an XBOX?
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:12 AM   #20
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PS4... what about an XBOX?
Clunky controller
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Old 09-04-2017, 02:46 PM   #21
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Let me breakdown your pages.

Page 1: The plane where the characters are standing is not clear. Its because you are not set the horizon line of the characters properly. Look at those feets. They are not interacting with the floor, each other is like standing on different floor. If the shadow is like that, The horizon line should be around their head. This page is already fail.

Page 2
Panel 1: The shoulder is weird. Again although the perspective of the building looks good, The character is not sync with the perspective of the horizon line.
Panel 2: Weird face, wrong hands, Good perspective. Somehow you managed to do perspective right here.
Panel 3: I wonder how you managed to draw those hands so right because on the previous panel you cant draw them properly. The hats are not sitting on their head properly. The faces are quite good. They are not out of proportion.

Page 3
Panel 1: The characters are quite good. But please sync the characters with your perspective.
Panel 2: Looks good. draw the plane where they stands and great hands on that performer.
Panel 3: Thats a good panel. Draw something at the background.
Panel 4: Im not sure about the hat, Overall nice shot.
Panel 5: Nice

Page 4
Panel 1: Thats quite good. Im not sure about the door tho. Is a door can be opened 180 degree?
Panel 2: All things here are not clear. Each characters stands on different plane and on different horizon line.
Panel 3:Why the head is like that? somehow the line is very different from the rest of the pages. Again the plane is not clear.
Panel 4: This is quite good although you need to rework them a bit.
Panel 5: Same crits as above

Page 5
Panel 1: I wonder how you can draw those drapery so good but you cant draw his pocket. Great angle
Panel 2: Nice shot.
Panel 3: Thats quite good.
Panel 4: Quite good too.
Panel 5: What is that curve line on his shoe? What is that suppose to be? Be clear with your environment
Panel 6: Hands?

Page 6
Panel 1: Great.
Panel 2: The plane where nightwing is standing and Nightwing himself didnt sync. Look at those feets and the floor line close to the door. It doesnt make sense.
Panel 3: quite good
Panel 4: Thats okay.

I suggest you learn more about the horizon line and how the characters sync with the plane they are interacting (standing, sitting, etc).

Draw good faces, your faces are dead.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think most of them looks traced from stills.
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:25 PM   #22
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@DavidNH Thanks so much for the tips and being so thorough.Really appreciate it. I was having alot of difficulty with these pages and was constantly going back reworking them. Plus I'm still kind of getting used to Clip studio paint and the auto perspective.

With the faces I was using crazy talk 8 and trying to cartoonize the face. Think the problem was I was relying on it more than my own attempt at it. Finding facegen 3d is best, seems more realistic. For clothing reference I eventually found that just taking a photo of my arm,etc and using the wrinkles as ref made it alot easier and specific to what I needed.
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Old 09-04-2017, 04:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinharte36 View Post
@DavidNH Thanks so much for the tips and being so thorough.Really appreciate it. I was having alot of difficulty with these pages and was constantly going back reworking them. Plus I'm still kind of getting used to Clip studio paint and the auto perspective.

With the faces I was using crazy talk 8 and trying to cartoonize the face. Think the problem was I was relying on it more than my own attempt at it. Finding facegen 3d is best, seems more realistic. For clothing reference I eventually found that just taking a photo of my arm,etc and using the wrinkles as ref made it alot easier and specific to what I needed.
So---that's what wrong with this artwork!!! What you said summed it up in a nutshell.

This comment is not aimed at you, personally, kevin, nor YOUR specific artwork, but at most, if not all, of the artwork I see that's rendered digitally. It's lifeless and possesses no soul because a human hand has not imbued it with such.

It's kind of like the telepods in the Jeff Goldblum version of THE FLY; the telepods couldn't transport organic matter, be it baboon or T-bone steak, because it didn't understand it. Similar sensibility can be applied to rendering all art digitally.

If you're not an artist on paper or in some physical medium (which I don't know if you are or not) outside the digital realm, how can you expect to be an artist on the digital plane? Digital rendering, whether it be penciling, inking or coloring, can't make you a good artist, it can only make you a BETTER artist. You can't build a skyscraper on a foundation of marshmallows because it won't stand up, so if your physically rendered artwork is not really, really, REALLY good, then any digital artwork you do is going to, ultimately, fail.

There are plenty of artists both here, and on many of the other comics-art sites that I frequent, who make beautiful and awesome digital artwork, but you can bet your ass they've likely spent many, many, many hours with a pencil, pen, brush or marker in hand.

If you want to be a great digital artist, and, again, this applies to many folks, learn how to be a great ARTIST first, then you'll have a firm foundation on which to build.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:23 PM   #24
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Clunky controller
Heresy!
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffchris50 View Post
So---that's what wrong with this artwork!!! What you said summed it up in a nutshell.

This comment is not aimed at you, personally, kevin, nor YOUR specific artwork, but at most, if not all, of the artwork I see that's rendered digitally. It's lifeless, possesses no soul because a human hand has not imbued it with such.

It's kind of like the telepods in the Jeff Goldblum version of THE FLY; the telepods couldn't transport organic matter, be it baboon or T-bone steak because it didn't understand it. Similar sensibility can be applied to rendering all art digitally.

If you're not an artist on paper or in some physical medium (which I don't know if you are or not) outside the digital realm, how can you expect to be an artist on the digital plane? Digital rendering, whether it be penciling, inking or coloring, can't make you a good artist, it can only make you a BETTER artist. You can't build a skyscraper on a foundation of marshmallows because it won't stand up, so if your physically rendered artwork is not really, really, REALLY good, then any digital artwork you do is going to, ultimately, fail.

There are plenty of artists both here, and on many of the other comics-art sites that I frequent, who make beautiful and awesome digital artwork, but you can bet your ass they've likely spent many, many, many hours with a pencil, pen, brush or marker in hand.

If you want to be a great digital artist, and, again, this applies to many folks, learn how to be a great ARTIST first, then you'll have a firm foundation on which to build.
I think what you are trying to say is that digital should be used as a means to further your style, productivity, etc., and not as a crutch or a means to "cheat." Going full digital makes it very easy to straight up trace your "reference". These pages look like they are traces of 3d models, and that is what gives them their stiffness, strange poses/expressions, etc.

My advice to the artist would be to use the 3d assets as reference only, and use your eye to make them more believable in your drawings. You won't improve if you rely on tracing. Of course, I could be completely off base. That's just what it looks like to me.
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:43 PM   #26
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Critiques are tough but good help

I like reading critiques and getting critiques as well sometimes its hard to accept the truth of needing more work but it should boost better for the artist to work harder. I like matttriano his work is incredible! if you see his site check it out I like to have a critique from him and very truthful about it. Just keep going, and put more pages one or two won"t do just do more like five or six or ten to show versatility.

All the best

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Old 09-04-2017, 09:50 PM
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:52 PM   #27
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Wow! Your line work is very crisp. Great job!
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:02 AM   #28
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@ Bishop. I only used 3d for the faces and manequins in clip studio for perspective framing. Sure it would take too long to model all the characters in 3d, and then you'd still have to draw the wrinkles in the clothing anyway.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by kevinharte36 View Post
@ Bishop. I only used 3d for the faces and manequins in clip studio for perspective framing. Sure it would take too long to model all the characters in 3d, and then you'd still have to draw the wrinkles in the clothing anyway.
Fair enough. Then, I guess my advice stands that rather than strictly transferring exactly what you see on the model, use your instincts to modify what you see to be more true to life and not so stiff/lifeless. Perhaps, rather than using a 3D application for your facial references use actual photos? Google searches for images with the expressions you are looking for may be a much better resource for you.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:59 AM   #30
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@DavidNH Thanks so much for the tips and being so thorough.Really appreciate it. I was having alot of difficulty with these pages and was constantly going back reworking them. Plus I'm still kind of getting used to Clip studio paint and the auto perspective.
Actually you dont need that auto perspective if you cant tell that page 1 is so wrong. You dont need to get used to CSP and that auto perspective. You need to understand that ALL the characters in page 1 is not standing on the same eye level. So that auto perspective is not really helping you get things right.

Quote:
With the faces I was using crazy talk 8 and trying to cartoonize the face. Think the problem was I was relying on it more than my own attempt at it. Finding facegen 3d is best, seems more realistic. For clothing reference I eventually found that just taking a photo of my arm,etc and using the wrinkles as ref made it alot easier and specific to what I needed.
Again you dont need that crazytalk 8 program if even with that the faces are still far from good. Learn how to draw faces. Read Loomis books, practice them everyday. I dont believe if you really want to put 10.000 hours if even now you still choose shortcut to draw faces. And how can you draw all perfect hands if the hands on panel 2 page 2 so wrong.

Quote:
@ Bishop. I only used 3d for the faces and manequins in clip studio for perspective framing. Sure it would take too long to model all the characters in 3d, and then you'd still have to draw the wrinkles in the clothing anyway.
Perspective framing? So why nightwing on page 6 panel 2 looks like floating instead of standing?

Almost all of your claim isnt seen on your works here. You said you use perspective on csp but the characters on page 1 are wrong, even the shadows are wrong. You said you wanna put 10.000 hours but how some of the faces are out of proportion and some dont? Do you really understand the proportion of faces?

Its not that it is wrong to use them. But dont rely on them. Learn the fundamentals first, Learn how to draw faces, learn perspective, And put your 10.000 hours practicing

Get Loomis books, Hogarth books, Bridgman books. Learn from them.

Programs wont make you a great artist. Only you can make yourself great.
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