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Old 09-05-2017, 04:16 PM   #31
kevinharte36
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@DavidNH page 6 panel 2 was set up with a 3d mannequin posed out then drawn on top. It's a close up, I don't understand how you think it's floating.

Maybe if you want to draw on top and show the correction? Clip studio must be inaccurate. I think it's a great program, because you can use all sorts of angles.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by kevinharte36 View Post
@DavidNH page 6 panel 2 was set up with a 3d mannequin posed out then drawn on top. It's a close up, I don't understand how you think it's floating.

Maybe if you want to draw on top and show the correction? Clip studio must be inaccurate. I think it's a great program, because you can use all sorts of angles.
You tilted the panel information, called 'dutching' in film.

People seated at a table is something we all know happens on a level floor. So. Why'd you tilt the panel info?

The only reason you dutched the info in 6.2 (if it's the page I think we're talking about the newest one) is to fit all the information you wanted in the panel without having to re-work your layout to comfortably and properly do so. Well that's an issue because now your boardroom table and guys in normal desk chairs are tilted in a thin horizontal panel that's squashing the composition AND your panel borders serve to remind the reader what horizontal and vertical look like. Therefore it appears as though these guys are having the meeting in fucking space! Floating in other words. Disrupting eyeflow, causing the reader to doubt what's going on even a little bit and perhaps taking them out of the story. Your job: keep them IN the story.

I'm currently drawing pages using clip studio and while I've found the perspective tool to be a little frustrating, that's my fault for not understanding the program as well as I should. But if you can't do it using pencil on paper, I'm afraid you'll always blame your digital tools instead of yourself. Clip is a tool. Learn perspective and Clip more thoroughly, it'll suck but worth it.

Re: 1.1 -- it looks goofy because (again) you dutched the fucking angle. Why does it look weird? Because the ground is often -- but not always -- flat. Yet your figures are tilted like they're walking downhill, except no one can walk downhill like that and boom you've created a disconnect with the reader. On page 1 panel 1. Uh oh.

Am I explaining this clearly? Tell me.
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:05 PM   #33
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Using software programs

I like the idea of using software programs like auto cad and etc for enchancing comicbook perspective in pages but I really don't trust it kind makes the work look too good I rather traditionally just pencil sequentials on paper and rather draw people from pictures rather using 3d models they don't look natural they are stiff

Scary thing is what if your computer crashes and you need the pages delivered on time and no physical art for copies what then?

Orlando
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:42 PM   #34
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I like the idea of using software programs like auto cad and etc for enchancing comicbook perspective in pages but I really don't trust it kind makes the work look too good I rather traditionally just pencil sequentials on paper and rather draw people from pictures rather using 3d models they don't look natural they are stiff

Scary thing is what if your computer crashes and you need the pages delivered on time and no physical art for copies what then?

Orlando
You're late. It's happened to me in a minor way, a page or part of one; I've thankfully never lost an issue but it's happened. Freddie Williams (who has been working digital for over a decade) now triple-saves his pages on internal and external drives after losing a bunch of work. Good habit in general, if you can.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlan29 View Post
I like the idea of using software programs like auto cad and etc for enchancing comicbook perspective in pages but I really don't trust it kind makes the work look too good I rather traditionally just pencil sequentials on paper and rather draw people from pictures rather using 3d models they don't look natural they are stiff

Scary thing is what if your computer crashes and you need the pages delivered on time and no physical art for copies what then?

Orlando
Oh yes, if you're going to work digitally, you'd better have lots of automatic, redundant back-up as well as a pretty robust battery backup for the computer in order to save stuff to said redundant drives in the event of a blackout. I learned that the hard way when I was scripting DEADWALKERS a long time ago and I lost the script to the entire third and fourth issues. Man, was that a moral breaker! UGH! Never, ever, ever again!!!!
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:15 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by MattTriano View Post
You tilted the panel information, called 'dutching' in film.

People seated at a table is something we all know happens on a level floor. So. Why'd you tilt the panel info?

The only reason you dutched the info in 6.2 (if it's the page I think we're talking about the newest one) is to fit all the information you wanted in the panel without having to re-work your layout to comfortably and properly do so. Well that's an issue because now your boardroom table and guys in normal desk chairs are tilted in a thin horizontal panel that's squashing the composition AND your panel borders serve to remind the reader what horizontal and vertical look like. Therefore it appears as though these guys are having the meeting in fucking space! Floating in other words. Disrupting eyeflow, causing the reader to doubt what's going on even a little bit and perhaps taking them out of the story. Your job: keep them IN the story.

I'm currently drawing pages using clip studio and while I've found the perspective tool to be a little frustrating, that's my fault for not understanding the program as well as I should. But if you can't do it using pencil on paper, I'm afraid you'll always blame your digital tools instead of yourself. Clip is a tool. Learn perspective and Clip more thoroughly, it'll suck but worth it.

Re: 1.1 -- it looks goofy because (again) you dutched the fucking angle. Why does it look weird? Because the ground is often -- but not always -- flat. Yet your figures are tilted like they're walking downhill, except no one can walk downhill like that and boom you've created a disconnect with the reader. On page 1 panel 1. Uh oh.

Am I explaining this clearly? Tell me.
Thanks, yep.

Pg.6 panel 2 was what I was talking about.


Dutching example pg 8 panel 2. The page after someone gets beheaded, so dutching was creating sea sickness?




Bought these posable figures,seem pretty neat
No PS4





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PL20...817917786.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Phic...733053131.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Phic...733990120.html

and study Mattesi books.

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Old 09-06-2017, 04:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinharte36 View Post
Thanks, yep.

Pg.6 panel 2 was what I was talking about.


Dutching example pg 8 panel 2. The page after someone gets beheaded, so dutching was creating sea sickness?




Bought these,seem pretty neat
No PS4





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PL20...817917786.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Phic...733053131.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Phic...733990120.html

and study Mattesi books.
RE: PANEL CONFUSION + SEASICKNESS: I don't see what's floating in the Nightwing panel but YES the guys sitting around the table - both in yours and in the printed page as well -- are creating an uneasy and unnecessary relationship btwn page form and content, they look like they're in a fucking yacht on choppy seas! Is that Ivan Reis or Eddy Barrows pencils?

RE: 3D FIGS: They're cool but don't use them as gospel. Even in that first pose -- which is good -- the guy's bicep is smushed into his chest like it hasn't breadth and width, structure where it needs. If you decided to be lazy and use that very well rendered and generally cool 3d model image as direct ref without any other ref images (to supplement your visual library and give the thing volume in your mind's eye) your drawing would be wack and everyone would be telling you so. And you might think (or even say) 'but I used reference.' And you did, just not enough. Not enough for YOU to understand what you're drawing enough for the READER to buy it.

PS4 graphics are incredible and the games seem very fun but don't actually buy a video game system if you want to draw comics. Sorta kidding, sorta not. They just take too much time. Both things. To do simultaneously and also have a life outside those two. FYI for all.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:28 PM   #38
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About using Body Kun model figures

Of course I actually like for the help in figure drawing anatomy in comics

https://bodykun.com/products/body-ku...ls-for-artists

Not too expensive if find the right store

I purchased these and it helped me using them in the Avenger Marvel sample

pages.

Orlando Baez
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:03 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlan29 View Post
Of course I actually like for the help in figure drawing anatomy in comics

https://bodykun.com/products/body-ku...ls-for-artists

Not too expensive if find the right store

I purchased these and it helped me using them in the Avenger Marvel sample

pages.

Orlando Baez
Those are some pretty cool mannequins, Orlando. Looks like they have a lot more flexibility than the wooden ones you can find and most art supply shops. Might have to pick up a couple of those myself. Thanks for the link!
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:57 PM   #40
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Neil, I find your criticisms very odd. You generally seem very strict on what needs fixing then at the end of it your post links to your work and it's mainly done with crayons and has alot of room for improvement.

That being said thanks, I'll work on my head constructions.
Probably the most ignorant post I've ever seen here ever. If you want to criticize my art, go ahead, although, the whole "You used a crayon" thing is kinda' dumb, at least in my opinion, since that's not really indicative of anyone's skill, and amazing work has been done with crayons. However, there are appropriate places to criticize my art. This isn't one of them, by the way.

My criticisms were not odd at all, and I was not even strict. If your faces are as exaggerated as yours are in the samples you posted, they're really going to stand out to people reading your comic. Pointing that out is not being nitpicky. If you're copying and pasting the same image over and over again (at least in the way that you did) it's really going to stand out in a negative way. This isn't like 'the hand is a little too large, the whole picture is ruined,' or 'that eye is a little too far to the left, I hate the whole thing.' Another thing, too, is that the face issue keeps repeating (those girls were just the biggest offenders), so, to my eye, at least, it's a pretty major issue in the work that will have an affect on most readers.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:27 PM   #41
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I think this thread should die. Personal Opinion.
Everyone has had their say, positive and negative.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:44 PM   #42
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I think this thread should die. Personal Opinion.
Everyone has had their say, positive and negative.
That's nice. Not up to you of course, I'd reckon that would be kevinharte36. If he has more art to post, more comments to add, you don't get to say he doesn't.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:17 AM   #43
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I know that.
Just feels like some bickering is going to start again.

Leave the egos at the door when posting art for crits.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:05 AM   #44
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Now, this is just my opinion, and others may disagree, but at the state your art is at now, OP, I would focus less on making comics, and more on doing drawing exercises. Things like drawing certain body parts over and over again, and figures at different angles, faces and smiles, and things like that. I think exercises like that will help A LOT, and make the process of making comics a lot easier. And I'm not saying you should do those exclusively for, like, a year, just practice hands and faces for two weeks straight and see how much it will help if you work on it everyday. If you don't fix those fundamental things, you can keep making comics and making the same mistakes, and continuing to struggle with trying to correctly convey your ideas. While doing sequential art certainly isn't bad, and a learning experience in itself, I believe it would be a good idea to focus more on certain art principles and just the figure, face, and hands in general.

As a disclaimer, you may not like my art, you may not like how I colored something, or a medium I used, or you may not like me, period, and all that is okay, but I'm not making REALLY freaked out looking faces on a regular basis, or fingers that look like hot dogs (see page 2, panel 2). So I think I may have something worthwhile to say, hence why I've commented. And even if I didn't attempt art at all, I think some of the things I said may be at least worth considering.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:43 PM   #45
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I know that.
Just feels like some bickering is going to start again.

Leave the egos at the door when posting art for crits.
yeah sure.

but NOTHING is going on around these forums. theres NO discussions all all. about anything. (speaking broadly here). but theres something going on right here. it hasn't devolved into a shit show even remotely yet. so..just let it be. cause nothing else is happening. theres at least a SPARK of life here.
its the ONE thread I keep checking every time I come back.

maybe we need some bickering at some level. cause dead forums are boring AF
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