The Talent Engine
 
 

Go Back   Digital Webbing Forums > Talent Engine > Creator Community

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-30-2016, 02:13 PM   #46
ayalpinkus
Registered User
 
ayalpinkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 62
ayalpinkus will become famous soon enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart Vernon View Post
I think the key point here is not so much that different artists spend different amounts of time... or that some are more detailed than others... but that earlier up there was a declaration of a sort that said something to the effect of "if you're spending more than 2 hours on a page, you need to speed up." and that kind of declaration can be really insulting.

Low-detail, small page, especially with no background work... probably can be done in a couple of hours by a seasoned artist. We've seen some examples of this. But that does not describe all comic work, and the kind of output generally expected by an American artist these days is not the kind of thing you're generally going to whip through in a couple of hours.

I think what he meant to say was: IF you want to work for a writer with a small budget, THEN you'll have to figure out how to make pages in very little time.

The alternative, of course, is to not work for that writer, and to for example take a decent paying day job instead and make your own comics in your spare time, comics you then own, and can spend time perfecting.

For me, personally, the latter is the preferred option.
__________________
Writer/Artist
http://www.ayalpinkus.nl/
ayalpinkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2016, 01:26 PM   #47
Stewart Vernon
Registered User
 
Stewart Vernon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kittrell, NC
Posts: 1,522
Stewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of lightStewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of lightStewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of lightStewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of lightStewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of lightStewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of lightStewart Vernon is a glorious beacon of light

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayalpinkus View Post
I think what he meant to say was: IF you want to work for a writer with a small budget, THEN you'll have to figure out how to make pages in very little time.

The alternative, of course, is to not work for that writer, and to for example take a decent paying day job instead and make your own comics in your spare time, comics you then own, and can spend time perfecting.

For me, personally, the latter is the preferred option.
I would couple that with... writers should have fair expectations too. If you don't have a big budget, don't expect DaVinci paintings. I see some artists squeezed to do quality work faster than is comfortable and for less than it is worth.

Artists should turn down work that doesn't feel comfortable. It would help if companies and individuals also wouldn't put the squeeze on too. IF you can find someone willing to work for less, go for it! Can't blame anyone for doing that. Just don't try and strongarm someone else for not fitting the same mold.

FYI, not saying anyone in this thread has done that... but in other areas, I do see people sometimes trying to pressure in this manner.
__________________
- Where you AT-AT?
Where I go when I am not here.
Stewart Vernon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2016, 03:42 PM   #48
ayalpinkus
Registered User
 
ayalpinkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 62
ayalpinkus will become famous soon enough

Apologies in advance for going off-topic -- yet again -- but I just noticed that Dark Horse is currently publishing Osamu Tezuka's work based on the character he's most famous for: Astro Boy.

http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/28-43...PB#prettyPhoto

The publication date is December 28th, three days ago.

[EDIT] He also gets credit for that cover.
__________________
Writer/Artist
http://www.ayalpinkus.nl/
ayalpinkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2016, 04:09 PM   #49
JRXTIN
Registered User
 
JRXTIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 64
JRXTIN is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayalpinkus View Post
And I think your art pages look amazing! Don't change that!
Thanks, but I've changed it many times. There's pretty much no market for my detailed American style comic pages. I've had more "success" with a manga style - Link and even simple cartoons (unfortunately that client appears to have gone out of business and taken his site down).

I'm a reasonably big manga/anime fan. I haven't read any of Tezuka's stories but ironically enough Astro Boy almost saved my career. The work went elsewhere though, where it appears to have flopped.
__________________
Webcomic:XTIN

Deviant Art
JRXTIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 04:56 PM   #50
maverick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,656
maverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRXTIN View Post


I don't think you could get away with this as a cover in American comics.

Maybe this one -



Maybe not.



Well this one has practice heads. Not very good ones, but . . .



O.K., this does tell the story, but there's no background, no dynamic cross hatching, cloth folds are simplistic, anatomy is rudimentary, perspective is eyeballed, detail is minimal.

Yes, you can get the speed and the high page count if you're willing to remove enough art from the art. To me Osamu Tezuka's 150,000 pages aren't the equal of however many thousand Jim Lee has drawn. Osamu Tezuka's compositions are good but I'm not going to call his art "high quality." I file it under "the least you can get away with." I'm not looking at it unless the story is extremely good, like Maus quality good. It was passable for for young children, in its day, before video games happened. Freak events of good fortune aside, I doubt a new artist could break out with this material in the present day.
Osamu Tezuka was creating in the 70s and 80s. Jim Lee is not only from a different country/culture, but a different time. Ridiculous comparison.
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 06:30 PM   #51
JRXTIN
Registered User
 
JRXTIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 64
JRXTIN is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick View Post
Osamu Tezuka was creating in the 70s and 80s. Jim Lee is not only from a different country/culture, but a different time. Ridiculous comparison.
We were talking about artists who crank out a dozen pages a day of simple art versus artists who take a day or more to create complicated art. The point was that there is no comparison.
__________________
Webcomic:XTIN

Deviant Art
JRXTIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 09:25 PM   #52
Scribbly
Easy reader
 
Scribbly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 4,790
Scribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud of

Talking about Jim Lee, Manga has a great influence on his famous style, actually Manga made in realistic style, not cartoony. There were a bunch of famous Mangakas (Manga artists) that clearly inspired Lee's initial style and technique.
Also, comics from Korea and probably. China. Unfortunaly, none of these artist did become popular in the American market which mostly imports Manga related to Anime (animation) characters. And nothing from Korea or China. Those clouds and wisps of dust and smoke, the parallel gradients, the figures facing camera only by front or profile ,the page composition, are a clever example of technique influence . Jim Lee dressed this Realistic Asian style with American characters. It was very impacting at the time. He created great success and acceptance with the concept. IMHO.
Scribbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 07:58 PM   #53
aaimiller
Registered User
 
aaimiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 13
aaimiller is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brian deberry View Post
huh?

This comic short comic was drawn (digitally) within 48 hours. Not garbage and (very close) definitely not a genius,
http://stupendodog.blogspot.com/2016...ayasshole.html
If he was only working for half of the 48 hours, that would still be almost 5 hours per page for the linked comic, and although the story is clear, they look much more like layouts than finished pages.

Jeff Smith, who has a fairly cartoony style, typically creates three pages per week, and released Bone in six issues/year.

I think a page in two hours is fine for a comic jam, but as a professional goal it is unrealistic. Perhaps it is achievable if you only do pencils, or only do inks, or only do flats, or only do colors. However most independent artists do all of the above.

There are however some methods which can help all artists work a little faster:
-do the entire book in stages: pencil everything, then ink everything etc.. instead of one page at a time.
-Ink all the important things in the first pass (faces, important details, poses), that way when you are rushing at the end, you aren't skimping on essential parts of the book.
-print gridded pages so you don't have to measure panels.
-find a cheap flatter. some people are willing to do it for $7-10/page.
aaimiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 04:41 AM   #54
JRXTIN
Registered User
 
JRXTIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 64
JRXTIN is on a distinguished road

I've managed to draw a page a day in my style, without compromise, for the last five days. I've lost all track of time and haven't been able to do hardly anything else, but still, that's a page a day.
__________________
Webcomic:XTIN

Deviant Art
JRXTIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 01:39 AM   #55
Sierra
Sierra Arts & Media
 
Sierra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 6
Sierra is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brian deberry View Post
I know several and I shared a link to one earlier in the thread.
http://stupendodog.blogspot.com/2016...ayasshole.html

Digitally drew that comic within 48 hours (this does not take into account the time spent writing.)

Webcomic artist are extremely fast.
For this comic, I see a simple, cartoonish art-style drawn in black-and-white, with eight pages in total, and three of those pages with only one or two subjects. It's reasonable to expect something like this to be produced in 2-3 days, if it's not made-to-order.

Complex art takes longer.

Semi-realistic art takes longer.

Thumbnailing & Crisp lines take longer.

Coloring takes longer.

Coloring with shading DEFINITELY takes longer.

Collaborating and communicating with a client takes UNTOLD amounts of time.


Quality work takes time. The only way to "Speed up" is to get lots of experience producing quality work, so that it comes more naturally to you. There's no shame in not having reached that point yet. There's also nothing wrong with valuing your time, your experience, or both for what it's worth.

TL-DR, it's kind of like this
Sierra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 09:04 AM   #56
fritzthefox
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 60
fritzthefox will become famous soon enough

Regarding the prolific output of some famous Manga artists, I think it is worth noting that Japanese is the only language with a specific word for "worked to death".
fritzthefox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 11:14 AM   #57
aaimiller
Registered User
 
aaimiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 13
aaimiller is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
There's no shame in not having reached that point yet.
THIS!

Artists SHOULD always be looking for ways to work faster, but they shouldn't feel like they are garbage for not being able to meet some arbitrary number of pages per hour. Art Spiegelman would often spend weeks on a page. In his early years, Jack Kirby would work very fast, but would do things like fill up to 1/3 of a page with the word "BAM", or use other similar tricks to be able to draw less. He slowed down considerably as his work matured, and he often only did the pencils.
aaimiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1997-2015 Digital Webbing, LLC