Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792377)

To be clear, Renae, and no offense intended, but I'm not talking about well-established professionals like you and the people you mentioned. I'm talking about downright FAMOUS comics creators. People who write two or three DC, Marvel, or Image titles a month. There's only 20-25 of those people on the planet. One such name was mentioned in this thread, and the thought of a name that big on kickstarter makes me upset.

And whatever trials or hardships a truly famous comic book creator might have getting a creator-owned book made, you can multiply that for the unknown creator by a thousand. The type of people I'm talking about can pick up a phone and any editor in the business will give their pitch serious consideration. Whereas a guy like me has to hope an editor doesn't immediately throw my submission in the trash.

Even if a full-time comic writer (and this point is specific to writers) isn't rich with money they're rich with time, contacts, networks, and access. Even if you write 3 comics a month, that doesn't come close to the time commitment of most normal full-time jobs. And such a person would know tons of working professionals and their name is enough to entice very talented people to be willing to collaborate with them. If schlubs like me can find talented people willing to work for back-end pay, why can't one of the most famous comic book creators in the world do the same?

I'll trade places with any of those guys any day. I'll take their contacts and their networks and their access and the power of their name, and in exchange they can hoard all the kickstarter dollars they can muster without those things. And we'll see who gets a project done first.

At at the end of the day, the kind of people I'm talking about ought to be, if not rich, then more than capable of financing production costs on a comic book. Much more capable than most unknown people. If you've been in the business for 20 years and have been working for the big boys the whole time on books that sell and you can't even cover production costs on a creator-owned comic, then something's very wrong.

Originally Posted by russbrett

But why should they go through the hassle of creating a web site to do exactly what Kickstarter is already doing?

Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792377)

To be clear, Renae, and no offense intended, but I'm not talking about well-established professionals like you and the people you mentioned. I'm talking about downright FAMOUS comics creators. People who write two or three DC, Marvel, or Image titles a month. There's only 20-25 of those people on the planet. One such name was mentioned in this thread, and the thought of a name that big on kickstarter makes me upset.

And whatever trials or hardships a truly famous comic book creator might have getting a creator-owned book made, you can multiply that for the unknown creator by a thousand. The type of people I'm talking about can pick up a phone and any editor in the business will give their pitch serious consideration. Whereas a guy like me has to hope an editor doesn't immediately throw my submission in the trash.

Even if a full-time comic writer (and this point is specific to writers) isn't rich with money they're rich with time, contacts, networks, and access. Even if you write 3 comics a month, that doesn't come close to the time commitment of most normal full-time jobs. And such a person would know tons of working professionals and their name is enough to entice very talented people to be willing to collaborate with them. If schlubs like me can find talented people willing to work for back-end pay, why can't one of the most famous comic book creators in the world do the same?

I'll trade places with any of those guys any day. I'll take their contacts and their networks and their access and the power of their name, and in exchange they can hoard all the kickstarter dollars they can muster without those things. And we'll see who gets a project done first.

At at the end of the day, the kind of people I'm talking about ought to be, if not rich, then more than capable of financing production costs on a comic book. Much more capable than most unknown people. If you've been in the business for 20 years and have been working for the big boys the whole time on books that sell and you can't even cover production costs on a creator-owned comic, then something's very wrong.

Originally Posted by Hanzou (Post 1792384)

Just to piggyback off of this; I was pretty surprised to see Top Cow utilizing Kickstarter to relaunch Cyberforce. That really bothered me, because I'm pretty sure that Top Cow doesn't need Kickstarter to launch a title, it's a pretty popular and strong publishing company.

Granted, the stuff they were offering was pretty sweet, but still....

Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792385)

I suppose I'm just too much of a progressive for this. In the case of the video game companies I've seen do this, the people going to kickstarter are literally millionaires. They're millionaires, and they're panhandling. It makes me want to get my torch and my pitchfork, quite frankly.

Originally Posted by Renae De Liz (Post 1792391)

And it leads me to ask you out of genuine curiosity, what is it that holds you personally back from going to Kickstarter NOW with your project? I know you said that you could do it yourself over time, but I personally feel for you, KS would make it so much better for you especially in the way that you would depend FAR less on a Publishers whim and if they want your book or not.

Originally Posted by Aaron Walther (Post 1792394)

It's all panhandling. Whether they list the book in Previews, take pre orders on their website, or use Kickstarter, it's all asking for people to commit to buying a product ahead of time.

This sort of entitled, "we got to stand up for the little guy" attitude is dangerous. I think the proper name for it is Sour Grapes.

Kickstarter is nothing but a recognizable brand that is offering an "all in one go to location" for people to raise interest and money for their product, and the only reason "customers" use it is because they want to support "creativity" without supporting evil, big business corporations.

Personally, I think the "freedom from corporations" attitude is asinine, but it feeds into the "we got to stand up for the little guy" attitude that so many people have about Kickstarter projects.

Kickstarter is just as big business as Image Comics. Kickstarter cuts out some of the middleman costs because it places all the responsibility on the creator, and as far as I know, provides a more instant access to the money (for better or worse).

Kickstarter is not going to start turning away famous people who are guaranteed to bring in big bucks because that would destroy their whole business model and would loose them money.

Rich famous people have just as much a right to make money as the rest of us poor saps do. There's nothing about the Kickstarter model that says they are specifically for poor, unknown people. Sure, Kickstarter has done a good job of selling that concept, because that's what the customer market wants to hear, but they are in no way obligated to start restricting who can and cannot use their model.

I think there are steps Kickstarter needs to take to make the crowdfunding experience better, but limiting the number of people who can use the platform is not one of them.

Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792395)

I feel like I don't really know enough people or have enough contacts. I don't even have 40 likes on facebook. If I were to raise the money, I'd want to raise it for the entire 6 issues. And even though I've already finished an issue and a half, we'd be talking about around $15,000. I just don't feel right about asking for that kind of money, even if I thought I could raise it. Plus, I don't really know what I'm doing with kickstarter, or what I could offer as rewards. I may have to give it a shot one day soon, as I don't know how I'll get issues 3-6 done any other way. Was Womanthology your first KS?

Originally Posted by Aaron Walther (Post 1792394)

It's all panhandling. Whether they list the book in Previews, take pre orders on their website, or use Kickstarter, it's all asking for people to commit to buying a product ahead of time.

This sort of entitled, "we got to stand up for the little guy" attitude is dangerous. I think the proper name for it is Sour Grapes.

Kickstarter is nothing but a recognizable brand that is offering an "all in one go to location" for people to raise interest and money for their product, and the only reason "customers" use it is because they want to support "creativity" without supporting evil, big business corporations.

Personally, I think the "freedom from corporations" attitude is asinine, but it feeds into the "we got to stand up for the little guy" attitude that so many people have about Kickstarter projects.

Kickstarter is just as big business as Image Comics. Kickstarter cuts out some of the middleman costs because it places all the responsibility on the creator, and as far as I know, provides a more instant access to the money (for better or worse).

Kickstarter is not going to start turning away famous people who are guaranteed to bring in big bucks because that would destroy their whole business model and would loose them money.

Rich famous people have just as much a right to make money as the rest of us poor saps do. There's nothing about the Kickstarter model that says they are specifically for poor, unknown people. Sure, Kickstarter has done a good job of selling that concept, because that's what the customer market wants to hear, but they are in no way obligated to start restricting who can and cannot use their model.

I think there are steps Kickstarter needs to take to make the crowdfunding experience better, but limiting the number of people who can use the platform is not one of them.

Originally Posted by Renae De Liz (Post 1792401)

I agree that people should not be excluded either (at least not RIGHT NOW where every level seems to find success). But on the other hand I do see how people could view a millionaire going on a site that's intended to help those that have no means to get their creative vision funded could be irksome. So I get that side too. Happily KS seems really good at balancing attention towards ALL types of projects, and all types find success. I have hope it will always stay that way.

Originally Posted by Renae De Liz (Post 1792399)

Is the 15 k for JUST the creative costs for 6 issues? What would be creative costs for each issue, respectively (if I may ask)? If you can tell me that I can try and offer you a scenario for Kickstarter to consider (funding goal, reward types, etc). Basically, while current fanbase is needed for optimal funding (like 10k and up), it's completely possible to earn less than that with no following if you present your project (especially in the video) juuuuuust right. :)

Womanthology was my first. It was a um, crazy experience to say the least. :laugh: I saw the lows and highs a Kickstarter can offer. I learned a lot from it.