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Old 11-08-2013, 01:57 AM   #1
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TPG Week 150: Bad Fan Fiction


Welcome back, one and all, to The Proving Grounds! This week, we have a new Brave One in Steven Applebaum, who's bringing something unusual to us: a sequel to the terrible Super Mario Brothers movie. (Yeah, I said it. It was a terrible movie. I recognized that even as a child. Age has not made it any better.) I'm alone this week. Let's see what Steve has wrought, shall we?



Page 1 of 25

Page 1



Panel 1



INT. PORTAL GUARDIAN CHAMBER



CAPTION: Deep in the desert, a chamber is discovered… (And already, things don't start off well. No Flawless Victory for format here.)



DAISY and a MYSTERIOUS MAN stand within a dimly-lit chamber while several workmen climb down a rope to join them. The dome-shaped chamber is littered with passageways leading in opposing directions. Sunlight filters through the hole in the ceiling, revealing thousands of metallic eggs placed around the chamber wall. (This is impossible to draw. I get the gist, though.)



A single pedestal stands at the chamber’s center, upon which a metallic EGG sits. Thick cables connect into a control panel at its base.



DAISY is wearing a purple and pink-schemed version of Mario and Luigi’s jumpsuits. It’s form-fitting, the waist cinched in a way that accentuates her curves.



A MYSTERIOUS MAN in desert gear—robe, his face obscured by goggles, cloth over mouth and a turban—stands beside her. A FRY GUY FLAMETHROWER is strapped over his shoulder.


Click here on 11/8/13 to read more.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:02 PM   #2
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Needlessly rude and antagonistic. Not in the least bit helpful.

Steven actually had the gall to ask me to pay him for his services as an editor. After reading this I see no reason to think he would be any more professional or courteous if hired.

Also, my comic is available to be read HERE. We have had positive response from dozens of sites since our launch with thousands of unique hits a month. It's been a wonderful experience getting this story out to the fans who have wanted it for 20 years!
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:50 PM   #3
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Mario has his fans. Always has. That's why he's still around after almost 30 years, but poor Donkey Kong is almost forgotten.

Rude? Possibly. I don't like substandard work, and there are places, both analog and digital, where simple things such as script format can be found. Antagonistic? That would follow rude, no?

You enjoyed the movie. That's great. You wanted to write a sequel as a comic. That's great, too. Doesn't counter the fact that the movie was terrible (even hated by the actors), or that this is badly crafted fan fiction.

You didn't find it helpful? Maybe you weren't looking hard enough. If you were looking for a pat on the head, I don't do that unless its warranted. This wasn't warranted.

I'm not interested in what other websites have to say about the finished product. I'm looking at the script, which is what the team had to look at and try to work from.

Congratulations on getting the work done and whatever positive reviews the work has garnered. I'm still sticking to my guns: this was a bad movie in which few wanted a sequel to, which has led to this bad fan fiction.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Forbes View Post
That's great, too. Doesn't counter the fact that the movie was terrible
The movie was not "terrible" as it received positive reviews praising its acting, special effects, set design and premise. We have dozens of said reviews archived on our website confirming this. The film also has a 5-star average on on Amazon.com.

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(even hated by the actors)
The actors do not hate the film. Did you not see the 20th anniversary greetings we filmed with the actors where they praised it and talked about what a good time they had filming it?

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, or that this is badly crafted fan fiction.
Not fan fiction. Canon. The comic is based off notes and discussions with the original writer.

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Originally Posted by Steven Forbes View Post
You didn't find it helpful? Maybe you weren't looking hard enough. If you were looking for a pat on the head, I don't do that unless its warranted. This wasn't warranted.
Most of your complaints were trivial or completely wrong. We asked our artist what he had to say about them and he told us that he has had no confusion from the script whatsoever. He has excelled in translating our script to the visual medium.

I wasn't looking for praise. I was looking for constructive criticism that didn't berate our work or give up not even halfway through.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:22 PM   #5
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I'm not going to argue with you. You have your beliefs, and I have mine. Just remember to look outside of sources that only reconfirm your world view.

This is not canon. This is fan fiction. Canon means that you've either paid a licensing fee to Nintendo to use their characters, or that Nintendo has hired you themselves to write this. If neither scenario is the case, then this is not canon but fan fiction, and infringing on their copyright can get you sued.

I'm glad your artist had no trouble with the script. I'm willing to bet he had a lot of questions, though, especially with the pages that had no panel descriptions to them.

Good luck with it.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:25 PM   #6
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This is not canon. This is fan fiction. Canon means that you've either paid a licensing fee to Nintendo to use their characters, or that Nintendo has hired you themselves to write this. If neither scenario is the case, then this is not canon but fan fiction, and infringing on their copyright can get you sued.
You should look up the definition of "canon" because that certainly is not it, or at least is not all of it.

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I'm glad your artist had no trouble with the script. I'm willing to bet he had a lot of questions, though, especially with the pages that had no panel descriptions to them.
And, no, he had no questions. We just let him draw whatever he wants and it turns out great. We don't feel the need to dictate every single panel because we're not artists; that's not our job. It's his as the artist.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:45 PM   #7
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Yup yup.

Anyone else?
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:51 AM   #8
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I've been in this position before, and it isn't pretty: Editing or commenting on a piece of work that has already seen print or facsimile. It's not only a lost cause because nothing will be done to change the product, but also because it will already have received pats on the back from the layperson, those who don't see the details that could have been made better.

I can honestly say that Steven walked into a hornet's nest with this one because, no matter what negative comments he made or how they were phrased, he was editing work that had already been completed and made assumptions on relationships already developed. In my opinion, a script in this stage of development should not be up for scrutiny in The Proving Grounds.

No one likes to receive a bad critique. I know, from personal experience after submitting two of my own scripts to TPG, that there's going to be brutal honesty. Yannick and Steven have both torn layers of skin off of me editorially. This, in my opinion, was not the worst I had seen as a commentary, but I probably would have made similar comments about the writing if I had been available to co-edit the script this time around. The difference? I don't know anything about the original movie that was produced in '93, so I wouldn't have had anything to base those comments on. Steven did, and it resulted in what seemed to be perceived as a bit of hero-bashing for the writer.

What this boils down to is two things: 1) If you've experienced TPG in the past, you'll know what to expect from the editors who comment on the scripts, and 2) never EVER submit scripts for work that has already been seen as an end product by the public at large. The way we edit in TPG isn't a film or literary critique: It's editing, and that's what you're going to get as a bottom line. And don't forget. TPG is not only editing for the person who submitted the script, but it's also an online classroom for writers to hopefully learn from.

Steve
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:11 PM   #9
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Poor, Steven. Had to do this week alone.

Drama. I don't know why (probably because I'm a sadist) but I enjoy it. Anyway, I thought I'd share my opinion even though I know people probably don't want to hear it.

First off, Super Mario Bros has a reputation of being a catastrophe. That's kind of just a given. Are there people who like it? Sure. I did when I first saw it, but I think I was 6. Now, I still like it for its stupidity. But a good film? No. But to each his own.

On that note, I don't know where you're getting your sources from, but all you have to do is google John Leguizamo and Bob Hoskins and you'll see plenty of stories of them bashing the movie. Hell, I heard once they were drinking in between takes because they were so fed up.

Now onto the script. I agree with Steven when he said this was probably a screenplay that was adapted to a comic script. The panel descriptions are way too vague and leave out a lot of info, which would be fine for a screenplay.

As for Steven's rudeness. Was he? Possibly. But the important thing to know if what you're submitting yourself to. All you had to do was read any of the 149 past TPG to know how it can be. If you can't take the criticism then don't submit. It shouldn't have been a surprise.

I agree with creativesynergy when he said produced scripts should not be submitted. I mean, the script is only a stepping stone to a finished project. If you have a finished product, then why not critique the finished product. If you want to improve your craft, then who cares what the finished product is like. You can't have it both ways.

Lastly, is this canon? Well the definition of canon depends on who you ask. Steven's right and wrong when he says canonical material needs to be authorized. I mean, which is considered "canon?" Superman 3/4 or Superman Returns? Could your comic be based off the writers notes and be his vision for the sequel? Sure. But he doesn't own the characters. Nintendo in 5 years could make a sequel to the movie if they wanted to which completely negates this comic. Then what? Personally, I don't think its canon. But then again, I don't think many people would care anyway. I wouldn't call it fan fiction though if you're going through all the trouble you are. An unauthorized sequel maybe.

In all fairness though, Steven did have a little bit of a bias of the movie before started his critique.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:23 AM   #10
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Good movie, bad movie...doesn't really matter to me.

Trying to understand why someone would go to the trouble of making a sequel to a bad movie? Not really part of my purview. Just something to wonder about.

I wouldn't care if this was a sequel to Highlander (loved the movie), or a sequel to Rob Zombie's Halloween II. I take the work on its own merits.
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