TPG Week 200: Blast From The Past Resubmission

[Steven Forbes]

Welcome back, one and all, to another installment of The Proving Grounds! This week, we have someone who's on stranger to these parts. We welcome back Brave One Kyle Raios! We've got Liam Hayes in blue, I'm the sedate one in red, and we see what Kyle has done with



Element

Written and Created by Kyle Raios



Another font size of ten. At minimum, scripts should be in twelve point for readability. I've enlarged the text, which I hope will reduce the Whiskey debt I owe Steven. (Thanks, Liam. That's one shot you no longer owe me...)



Chapter 1



Page 1



Full Page: We open with a frontal view of Atum. He stands on an oversized version of the Benben stone, (How big is it?) which here looks like the tip of an Egyptian pyramid protruding from the ground. 1 (For reference – this is an example. Don't copy the glyphs, we're not in the age of written word yet ). (In case they get cut, there are references in the footer of this script. Nice touch.) (Very nice. They only got cut because they showed up at the end of the post.) He stands on the top, his legs together and his toes pointed down balancing on the tip. The wind has kicked his hair back, waving wildly. His arms are outstretched, and his eyes are open, but staring upward, and glowing a dark purple (Punctuation.) In the background, the ground is an endless sea of the Egyptian desert. The sky swirls with the dark colors of chaos – black, purple, and the putrid green.

Click here to read more.

[KyleRaios]

Ya know, had I gotten this critique on this particular draft when I first submitted this particular story nearly three years ago, I think it would have legitimately left me in tears.

Now? 2.5 years of grad school and a pseudo-divorce later, it feels like a small gut punch. The joys of age and cynicism, eh?

But seriously, before I get into anything. I appreciate the time and effort you guys took to read this and comment. It means a lot.

There's a lot to be learned from this, for sure. Honestly, I thought this was a vast improvement from the first iteration, mostly because the overarching theme and story I want to tell with this is so much more fleshed out than it was three years ago. I felt, and do feel, like this is the foundation for the story I want to tell with the message I want to convey. This is a medium I have loved and read my entire life, and am now trying to break into (well, getting back to trying - that masters degree got in the way). I need to work with an editor and eventually a creative team that knows this medium better than I, and find the right way to tell my story.

For panel descriptions, I knew where some of the critiques were going to come from after I had submitted it and read it back through. There's no excuse for those - I should know better. I'm rusty, sure, but no excuse.

"Here’s what happened: Kyle thought this was interesting, so he started going hither and yon, with a little bit of droning. The problem: he thought wrong. He thought wrong a lot. Let me count the ways." - probably hit the nail on the head right there, to be honest.

I didn't think this was boring. My entire life is immersed in history and mythology. It's not just a passion - it's my livelihood.

For me, this line has a lot of power and sets the entire tone of the story:
Caption (low placement, by the page turn): This is the story of gods, where gods do not exist.

On a basic level, I want to tell a story where the superhero-god mythos is reversed.
Superman is a modern god? Zeus was an ancient superhero. But the perception is reversed because of where human civilization and advancement are at different points.

From there, I want to show how the worlds earliest religions are the most primitive explanations for life. And ultimately, through the course of the journey I want to take readers on, emphasize the merits of human achievement, and show why we should be exalting ourselves, not gods or (and it burns to even write this) friggin' aliens who built the pyramids (according to that one guy who keeps coming to my bar).

It's a slow burn, over a long epic.

Now, I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to give excuses, because I'm not. I see my faults, accept the criticism, and will certainly integrate it as I move forward in rewriting and rewriting and rewriting this story.

I just had to spew forth to another human being what I want to ultimately do here.

Anyway, like I said, thanks so much for the critiques and edits, and all to come. It is appreciated.

As always, I apologize if my tone comes off as bitter, defensive or just downright rude.

I'm neck deep in a thesis about hyena behavior in Egyptian art, and my brain is mush. And not the good kind of beer induced mush I like.

I'm shocked I knew it was Friday.

[SamRoads]

Kyle - your passion does you credit. If you want to create the fantastic graphic novel in your head, I recommend practising the craft of GN writing for maybe 2-3 years before even trying this epic.

I was pretty much the same. I came to the world of GN with an idea for a vast story. The first 100 pages of script I wrote were all for the story. Then I started doing short stories for practise. I submitted some of them to ComixTribe. And I learned how much I had to learn.

I've now published my first graphic novel, I'm working on more and I'm *still* not ready to make the big epic one.

Make a 4 page story about hyena behaviour and submit it to TPG.

[SamRoads]

Steve and Liam - can I challenge an accepted part of comics grammar? I'd like your views.

This story contains a note "Translated from the Ancient Egyptian". I see this kind of thing in mainstream comics and it appears to be very standard practise. However, it feels awkward and a mistake, to me.

When I watch the Three Musketeers, at no point does a voiceover say 'This dialogue is translated from the French'. Nor does a caption appear. We get it. It's not a big deal.

If I saw a scene of ancient Egypt I would presume they weren't talking in English.

Why have the caption?

[Steven Forbes]

Good question, Felix, and I do have a good answer. However, I'm leaving work in a few. I'll answer when I get home.

[KyleRaios]

Originally Posted by SamRoads

Make a 4 page story about hyena behaviour and submit it to TPG.

Now there's an interesting challenge. I accept.

[Steven Forbes]

Originally Posted by SamRoads

Steve and Liam - can I challenge an accepted part of comics grammar? I'd like your views.

This story contains a note "Translated from the Ancient Egyptian". I see this kind of thing in mainstream comics and it appears to be very standard practise. However, it feels awkward and a mistake, to me.

When I watch the Three Musketeers, at no point does a voiceover say 'This dialogue is translated from the French'. Nor does a caption appear. We get it. It's not a big deal.

If I saw a scene of ancient Egypt I would presume they weren't talking in English.

Why have the caption?

Okay, Felix.

Here's how/why things are done the way they are.

When there's one language spoken throughout the entire book, there's no need to say that it's being translated from another language.

If there's mixed languages being spoken, then they need to be "translated" so they can be read.

Simple, no?

Now, for movies like the 3 Musketeers, they're all speaking French, so there's no need to "translate." It's really the same "rule." (However, sometimes, a movie will call attention to itself by not translating, but the characters are speaking with an accent of the land--such as minor characters speaking English with a French accent while in France.)

Does that make sense?

[DarkHalf05]

Kyle,

Welcome back! Glad to see the calling of comics couldn't keep you away.

I remember this script from before. The concept behind it is one of my favorites. The extra little insight you posted in the forums definitely has my interest.

I have a few thought for you. Please keep in mind I'm new at this.

After reading the dream/exposition sequence there are only a few beats that linger in my memory afterwards. First is the slap, followed by the impalement from behind. Finally the clash between Zues and Kronos.

Steven explained about the caption types. Obviously the best ones are the "lean in" type. This sparked an idea for you, assuming you really wanted to keep the beginning. It's really meant to be a dream, right? Why not have the captions be the internal monologue from the protagonist? Back when I used to remember my dreams I would be aware I'm dreaming. I could watch the dream and still think thoughts relating to it. Sometimes you know you are supposed to be one of the people you're dreaming about, even if you see them in third person.

This is just an idea. You could have the titans fighting, and talking, because that's how we see dreams (usually). Let the dream be self aware. I think, done well, it may be an interesting dynamic.

Anyway, I hope my feedback is of some help. I'd love to see this come through TPG again. Good luck!

Ryan

[Clockworm]

(Thanks, Liam. That’s one shot you no longer owe me…)

Damn. That's a drop in the ocean. The literal ocean of whiskey.

P5, and Liam has stolen my thunder!

Whoops! Just call me Prometheus.

This story contains a note "Translated from the Ancient Egyptian". I see this kind of thing in mainstream comics and it appears to be very standard practise. However, it feels awkward and a mistake, to me.

When I watch the Three Musketeers, at no point does a voiceover say 'This dialogue is translated from the French'. Nor does a caption appear. We get it. It's not a big deal.

Sam, I'm with you on this. I don't see the need for it either. Personally, I'd leave it out and rely on suspension of disbelief. The alternative is to have characters misunderstand each other for the entirety of the story, and who wants that?

[KyleRaios]

Truth be told, I find complaints about 10 font size to be very nitpicky. I find sizes 10- 11 to be aesthetically pleasing, but this is a purely personal aside.

[Steven Forbes]

12 is a default for a reason.

I don't want to have to squint to read what you wrote, and I shouldn't have to raise the font points myself in order to read it.

Everything that I have to do to "fix" a submission is just another barrier to entry. A barrier that you have control over.

If you're a genius and I don't know it, and I'm working at a publisher and you want me to read your stuff and you sent it in at 10pts, I'm not going to read it. You won't hear from me. It goes in the trash.

Nitpicky? Possibly. But it's a default for a reason. Most people stay there, with only a few going lower or higher depending on the needs of the document.

[Clockworm]

Truth be told, I find complaints about 10 font size to be very nitpicky. I find sizes 10- 11 to be aesthetically pleasing, but this is a purely personal aside.

It's extremely nit-picky. But if submission guidelines call for it and you can't even follow that instruction, how can publishers trust you'll be able to follow editorial notes and deadlines?

[Steven Forbes]

Originally Posted by Clockworm

It's extremely nit-picky. But if submission guidelines call for it and you can't even follow that instruction, how can publishers trust you'll be able to follow editorial notes and deadlines?

I don't know of a single publisher that has a requirement of a particular font size.

[Clockworm]

I've seen a few anthology submissions call for it. I can't recall from where, so I might have imagined it. That or I'm a demented editor with a penchant for arbitrary submission guidelines. (Webdings 75pt! Mwaha!) I imagine if more places accepted scripts, we'd see more of it. Like prose formatting.

Point being, don't give someone a headache. And don't let something as small as font size earn you a rejection. Let your 200 page epic about space farming do it.