Go Back   Digital Webbing Forums > Hosted Forums > ComixTribe > The Proving Grounds

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2014, 07:39 AM   #1
Steven Forbes
Freelance Editor
 
Steven Forbes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In the moment
Posts: 3,888
Steven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud of

TPG Week 205: Don't Submit Before You're Ready



Welcome back, one and all, to another installment of The Proving Grounds! We here at ComixTribe wishes that you all had a happy, healthy and safe Thanksgiving. (I know that I ate enough for most of you. Especially the pie...) This week, we have a new Brave One in Paul Im. We have Samantha LeBas in purple, and I'm the guy overstuffed in the corner in red, and we see how Paul handles





The Best-Laid Plans



Before we begin, I once again saved all of your eyes by putting this up to a font size of 12. It was 11. You're welcome.



PAGE 1



PANEL 1



Sara, in full Witchblade armor, is jumping out towards the reader. (There is a lot of information missing from this description. Where is she? What is her expression like? Jumping can mean a lot of things, is she looking at us? Is she leading with her head? Diving with her arms extended? You have not told us what you want here.) (Wow! I'm seeing a clip from Clue in my head. “This is terrible! This is absolutely terrible!” I don't need an establishing shot for the very first panel. That can be worked in. However, there's absolutely no information here. What time of day is it? Where are we? Right now, this is a white void. This is not a good start.)





SARA (Thought)



The dark artifacts cause so much trouble.



PANEL 2



Sara stops a car with the Witchblade, right before it slams into a mother and her 3-year-old daughter.(White void, no expressions on anyone’s face, no details on the car. Not enough information, again. Were the mother and daughter in a car or walking?) (How does she stop said vehicle? There are many ways to do it.)





SARA (Thought)



I wish there was some way to contain them.


Click here to read more.
__________________
Learn to make comics at ComixTribe! Be part of the Tribe!
E-Mail me for your editing needs. Twitter: @stevedforbes
"Criticism is an acknowledgment of your ability to produce results." David Gerrold
Steven Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Connect With Facebook to "Like" This Thread

Old 11-28-2014, 11:45 AM   #2
Kiyoko, Rin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 150
Kiyoko, Rin is on a distinguished road

Not sure Top Cow would appreciate the high chance of being sued that comes with this story should it ever be published. Even though foxes with nine tails are derived from Japanese mythology and are (theoretically) in the public domain, Game Freak has copyrighted the name / concept / design - and then when you use the word “Fire!” anywhere near it… (Ninetails is a fire type Pokemon.)

Mr Forbes’ quip about, “planets can be pulled from his regular pockets, and entire galaxies from his cargo pockets,” reminded me of an episode of He-Man from back in the day. He-Man stopped a flying creature escaping by: 1) stretching out the waistband of his underpants 2) plunging a hand inside the cavity created as a result of # 1, and 3) removing a ten foot tall grappling hook… that was attached to about 20 feet of rope. There was no sign of the gerbil.
Kiyoko, Rin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:03 PM   #3
Schuyler
Registered User
 
Schuyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Posts: 426
Schuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really nice

Quote:
PANEL 1
Two sleek, metallic foxes with nine thin metal tails are waiting for Tara and Evan outside the barn. One fox is standing on the roof of a sedan, and the other is standing in front of the car. The tails are curved so they are pointed at Tara and Evan.
Quote:
First, where’s the camera in panel 1? Why do I ask this question, Schuyler?
Quote:
PANEL 3
Tara has opened the driver’s seat a crack and is yelling at Evan.
Quote:
This panel shows you haven’t yet mastered spatial mechanics. This goes back up to P4 panel 1.
Thanks for calling on me, Steven. I always have to think pretty hard and it provides me a unique learning opportunity. I am also glad I do not have to figure out what my name rhymes with. Hehe…

Honestly, I feel a little stumped. I understand that camera placement is necessary and I could give some reasons why but I know that you want something specific from me.

I am pretty sure the driver’s door is facing the barn, because of later action.

Panel one on page four seems to imply that the roof fox appears first in the panel.

So we have a sedan in the direct foreground. There is a fox on the roof and he appears first.

That means that the camera is on the passenger side. Both foxes must have their back to us, if they are attacking people emerging from the barn. The barn should be visible in the background.

I think if the panel description was a little cleaner the camera placement would not sound like a math problem. I do not think that I have answered your question though.

Here is my best stab.

Why are you asking where the camera is for panel one, page four?

We need to see the tails from a certain angle to even understand what is going on with the next two panels.
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2014, 10:39 AM   #4
Darth Commenter
Registered User
 
Darth Commenter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
Darth Commenter is on a distinguished road

Hello all,

I must be brave to show up after that drubbing (right?)

Thank you Steven and Sam for your time and input, my only regret is I let you down so badly. But, the only place to go from here is up, so I'm still feeling pretty good.

I also do want to note that this was my second year competing in the Top Cow contest and the first time around they told me I needed to reduce my descriptions and add more action. Clearly I went a bit too far.

I've received a lot of great take-aways:
Pointless action is ... pointless.
Compress the story, expand the descriptions.

Thanks again.
Darth Commenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2014, 06:46 PM   #5
SamRoads
Also known as Felix
 
SamRoads's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 308
SamRoads has a spectacular aura aboutSamRoads has a spectacular aura about

Darth - one way to learn is to copy out something. It's pretty much how Bach and Mozart would have learned to compose. Hunter S Thompson (Fear and Loathing...) allegedly typed out The Great Gatsby.

Find a page of script from Top Cow and type it out. Don't cut and paste. Actually print it out, then type it into your scripting editor program of choice.

I think you'd be surprised how much you learn from doing this. And you'll figure out the things you still need to work on if you're to win that talent competition.

Here's the sublime Brian Michael Bendis' 'Powers' script: http://www.comicbookscriptarchive.co.../POWERSV21.doc
__________________
Editor
CreativeScreenwriting.com
"The best magazine for screenwriters" - The LA Times
SamRoads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 11:28 AM   #6
Darth Commenter
Registered User
 
Darth Commenter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
Darth Commenter is on a distinguished road

Thanks for the tip Sam. Will definitely try that.
Darth Commenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 07:33 PM   #7
Schuyler
Registered User
 
Schuyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Posts: 426
Schuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really nice

So... Steven, what's the answer?
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 02:18 AM   #8
Steven Forbes
Freelance Editor
 
Steven Forbes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In the moment
Posts: 3,888
Steven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
Thanks for calling on me, Steven. I always have to think pretty hard and it provides me a unique learning opportunity. I am also glad I do not have to figure out what my name rhymes with. Hehe…

Honestly, I feel a little stumped. I understand that camera placement is necessary and I could give some reasons why but I know that you want something specific from me.

I am pretty sure the driver’s door is facing the barn, because of later action.

Panel one on page four seems to imply that the roof fox appears first in the panel.

So we have a sedan in the direct foreground. There is a fox on the roof and he appears first.

That means that the camera is on the passenger side. Both foxes must have their back to us, if they are attacking people emerging from the barn. The barn should be visible in the background.

I think if the panel description was a little cleaner the camera placement would not sound like a math problem. I do not think that I have answered your question though.

Here is my best stab.

Why are you asking where the camera is for panel one, page four?

We need to see the tails from a certain angle to even understand what is going on with the next two panels.
Well, I aim to please.

The reason I asked where the camera is placed is because we need to know what's on the screen and where things are placed in reference to each other.

A clearer panel description would have told us not only which direction the car was facing, but also whether or not the humans can be seen in this panel. Then, we can concentrate on the foxes, and placing them in relation to everything else.

A clear panel description can give us the camera placement, or it can give enough insight to the artist for them to choose their own placement, as long as all of the relevant details are shown. With what we have here, it isn't clear if the people have exited the barn as yet or not. (Another panel could easily be added for pacing, just showing the humans' reaction to the threat.)

Good work, Schuyler. You got a good part of it. (You just went overboard with the tails.)
__________________
Learn to make comics at ComixTribe! Be part of the Tribe!
E-Mail me for your editing needs. Twitter: @stevedforbes
"Criticism is an acknowledgment of your ability to produce results." David Gerrold
Steven Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 01:55 PM   #9
Schuyler
Registered User
 
Schuyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Posts: 426
Schuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really niceSchuyler is just really nice

Thanks, Steven. I like to learn.
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 08:33 PM   #10
Alyssa
@AlyCro
 
Alyssa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Aussieland
Posts: 447
Alyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to allAlyssa is a name known to all

I got my "late to the party" pants on. Sorry, was a bit busy this week! I read this when you first posted, just couldn't reply. Let's see if I remember enough of this script to help a little.

Quote:
PAGE 5

PANEL 1

Tara is down on the ground, firing her gun at the foxes. Evan is lying next to her. The net flies past them. (This is another panel with action that is badly told. If your name sounds like Melissa, you should fix this so it reads better, so we all can see.)

NO COPY
For starters, I'm seeing a bit of a disjoint with the action.

Page 4, Panel 1:
Tara and Evan standing outside the barn, greeted by robo-foxes.

Page 4, Panel 2:
Robo-foxes shoot at the humans with their tails.

Page 4, Panel 3:
The tails turn into a net.
(This in itself is confusing- the firing that happened before, were they bullets? And now, their metal tails are forming some kind of net? Or were they firing weights connected to a net that also shoots out of their tails? If the latter, why is the firing/net thing on two different panels?)

Page 5, Panel 1:
Tara and Evan are on the ground. Tara is shooting. Net flies past them.
Why didn't we see them dive for cover? How did Tara manage to dive down, aim her gun, and fire her gun in the time that it took for the net to fly through the air?

Page 5, Panel 2:
"Both foxes are decapitated, and a piece of the car where the driver’s seat meets the roof is destroyed."
Given that driver's seat doesn't actually meet the roof of a vehicle, this description is kinda weird to me. Also, Tara has just started shooting, and in the very next panel, both foxes are missing their heads, and the car is ripped to shreds? There's too much happening between panels (in my newbie opinion), and it's sucking all the decent action out of an action scene.

Page 5, Panel 3:
"Tara has opened the driver’s seat a crack and is yelling at Evan."

Is this supposed to be, "driver's DOOR a crack"? Tara is teleporting all over the place. How did she get from being flat on the ground to holding the door open in just one panel?

Am I wrong that this script needs to show more action on panel, rather than between them?

ANYHOO.

In answer (kinda) to your comment, Steven, I'd probably start by dividing panel 1 into two panels.

Panel 1:
Tara dives to the ground with gritted teeth. She's grabbed Evan by the arm and is yanking him down with her. Evan is terrified. The net fired from the fox tails is flying overhead, narrowly missing them.
TARA: Down!
Panel 2:
Tara is laying flat on her stomach, elbows dug into the dirt as she fires her gun. She grimaces as she looks down the gun's sight. Evan is flat on the ground beside her, head down and hands clasped tight over his ears.
SFX: Blam! Blam! (or whatever sound it makes, I didn't pay attention to the type of gun)

All this is presuming we've set up the scene properly, so the artist can figure camera angles easy enough.

Am I on the right track, Steven?
Alyssa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 01:41 AM   #11
Steven Forbes
Freelance Editor
 
Steven Forbes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In the moment
Posts: 3,888
Steven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud ofSteven Forbes has much to be proud of

Yep. That's a damned sight better than what we have here.

Good work, "Melissa".
__________________
Learn to make comics at ComixTribe! Be part of the Tribe!
E-Mail me for your editing needs. Twitter: @stevedforbes
"Criticism is an acknowledgment of your ability to produce results." David Gerrold
Steven Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1997-2015 Digital Webbing, LLC