Warning to My Fellow Collaborators

[creepsville]

Hello all. I want to warn the community that artist Dan Sant, aka Daniel Santana Cavalcante, is unprofessional, personally insulting, and will take your money and run.

I’ve never had an artist take my money and not turn in a finished product. I’ve never had an artist raise their fees mid-project. I’ve never had an artist strong arm me into paying him up front to get my last pages.

I’ve never had to redraw entire panels on pages for my artist. I’ve never had an artist charge me a fee, and when I agreed to pay it, decide the fee was insulting to him. I’ve never had an artist forget what the main character looks like.

I’ve never had an artist randomly attack me personally. I’ve never had an artist disregard my requested edits. I’ve never had an artist tell me that our project is not a priority and move on to another project before finishing ours.

I’ve never had an artist accuse me of disrespecting his work while I gave him nothing but praise. I’ve never had an artist intentionally sabotage a project we both could have benefited from finishing. I never had any of this until I worked with Dan Sant.

So be warned. My book is now unfinished because his outlandish behavior. I put thousands of dollars into it and now I have an artist who stole from me and don’t get to finish it. This guy isn't just unprofessional and emotional and random as it gets, he's a thief.

[sevans]

How much is unfinished? and what type of style? There might be some other artists that can fill the gaps.
Post up some pages, you paid for them, they are yours to show.

and if this is true, regarding Dan Sant (I don't know him), it will catch up with him.
A bad reputation won't land you any jobs.

[Arak-8]

I'm sorry this happened to you man,and thanks for the warning of who he is,I will be sure to keep an eye out for him.

[SSTiger]

Originally Posted by creepsville

Hello all. I want to warn the community that artist Dan Sant, aka Daniel Santana Cavalcante, is unprofessional, personally insulting, and will take your money and run.

I’ve never had an artist take my money and not turn in a finished product. I’ve never had an artist raise their fees mid-project. I’ve never had an artist strong arm me into paying him up front to get my last pages.

I’ve never had to redraw entire panels on pages for my artist. I’ve never had an artist charge me a fee, and when I agreed to pay it, decide the fee was insulting to him. I’ve never had an artist forget what the main character looks like.

I’ve never had an artist randomly attack me personally. I’ve never had an artist disregard my requested edits. I’ve never had an artist tell me that our project is not a priority and move on to another project before finishing ours.

I’ve never had an artist accuse me of disrespecting his work while I gave him nothing but praise. I’ve never had an artist intentionally sabotage a project we both could have benefited from finishing. I never had any of this until I worked with Dan Sant.

So be warned. My book is now unfinished because his outlandish behavior. I put thousands of dollars into it and now I have an artist who stole from me and don’t get to finish it. This guy isn't just unprofessional and emotional and random as it gets, he's a thief.

You should've cut ties the moment this kind of behavior started. Even as a work-for-hire job, it takes two to collaborate properly, and if one side isn't pulling the same weight it's guaranteed not to end well.

Thank you for the warning, and I'm sorry this happened to you.

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by creepsville

Hello all. I want to warn the community that artist Dan Sant, aka Daniel Santana Cavalcante, is unprofessional, personally insulting, and will take your money and run.

I’ve never had an artist take my money and not turn in a finished product. I’ve never had an artist raise their fees mid-project. I’ve never had an artist strong arm me into paying him up front to get my last pages.

I’ve never had to redraw entire panels on pages for my artist. I’ve never had an artist charge me a fee, and when I agreed to pay it, decide the fee was insulting to him. I’ve never had an artist forget what the main character looks like.

I’ve never had an artist randomly attack me personally. I’ve never had an artist disregard my requested edits. I’ve never had an artist tell me that our project is not a priority and move on to another project before finishing ours.

I’ve never had an artist accuse me of disrespecting his work while I gave him nothing but praise. I’ve never had an artist intentionally sabotage a project we both could have benefited from finishing. I never had any of this until I worked with Dan Sant.

So be warned. My book is now unfinished because his outlandish behavior. I put thousands of dollars into it and now I have an artist who stole from me and don’t get to finish it. This guy isn't just unprofessional and emotional and random as it gets, he's a thief.

This is the reason of why as rule of thumb the artists, myself included, or anyone else should have the payment only AFTER the work is done.
To draw for ourselves is an Art's expression but when we draw for others it becomes a service.
I would never pay for a service (any service.) until it is done to my satisfaction. MY two cents.



.

[Neil Allen]

This is one of the big reasons why I don't collaborate with people on comic projects (at least not on MY projects), and probably the biggest.
Reasons:

a) If you choose to collaborate, you may have to deal with whatever nonsense, baggage, and/or flakiness others may bring with them.
b) It's important that, in all aspects, my own vision is what is seen in the final product.
c) It's more fulfilling to do and learn things myself. And much more beneficial in the long run.
d) It saves A LOT of money and headache (which is linked to 'a').

Anyway, best of luck to you, OP. Your experience sounds extremely frustrating.

[DCdraw]

Wow, that's really messed up. Sorry to hear that, TC.

Originally Posted by Scribbly

This is the reason of why as rule of thumb the artists, myself included, or anyone else should have the payment only AFTER the work is done.

That arrangement leaves artists in a precarious position though. Better to do a half upfront/half after kind of deal.

[DJA]

Originally Posted by DCdraw

Wow, that's really messed up. Sorry to hear that, TC.



That arrangement leaves artists in a precarious position though. Better to do a half upfront/half after kind of deal.

This^ Sorry to hear that to op.A shame when someone FINALLY pays an artist and he turns out to scam ya.

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by DCdraw

Wow, that's really messed up. Sorry to hear that, TC.
That arrangement leaves artists in a precarious position though. Better to do a half upfront/half after kind of deal.

What precarious condition?
You get the job done, you get paid. Is committing.
Why you or anybody should get paid half or full BEFORE start doing anything?
Work for others is a service. Not a favor. Why a service must be paid before it is done and approved?
I don't get it.

PS: I don't know if you realized the guy who did start this thread was one of these who paid upfront
for the job. Look at the result.

[DCdraw]

Precarious as in leaving yourself open to someone disappearing when its time to get paid. With half upfront, at least you would get something out of it if someone goes MIA on you...half is better than nothing. It's rather naive to create anything for someone and assume the other party is going to pay you because they told you so. Why give someone the opportunity to screw you over outright?

"Why a service must be paid before it is done and approved?"
Speaking for myself, half upfront is part of my terms much like my rate. If someone doesn't agree to it then we don't have a transaction and that is fine.
In a way it almost works as a bullshit detector, since half upfront pretty much stops anyone with dubious intentions right from the start. If they were to have no intention of paying for the artwork after they get it, they're obviously aren't going to pay half upfront. So that right there saves me potential frustration .

Been freelancing full time almost 10 years, always using half upfront and I have no real horror stories of getting ripped off during that time. In fact, the only stories I have of getting ripped off were before I was freelancing for a living and I didn't know better. That's probably one of the biggest pieces of advice I'd give anyone actually.

Also as an addendum, it isn't a good idea to pay the full amount upfront. When in doubt google the person, even ask for references. And if you're doing work for a well known company, you're pretty much working on their terms.

[Kay]

Originally Posted by Scribbly

You get the job done, you get paid.

Agreed, but what if the writer walks out when the job is done?

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by Kay

Agreed, but what if the writer walks out when the job is done?

Walks out with what job? And what he can do w it afterwards? How far he can go with stolen pages?
The places for publishing, exposing or distributing comics material w commercial purposes can be counted w the fingers of one hand.
Also, you can't do much going away with robed unpaid pages that are set on low resolution files. Maybe printing stamps?

The high res files are sent by the artist after payment is cashed and confirmed.
Also contract. And common sense. And the deal you make.
A guy who can't pay cash usually want a non paid collaboration type of arrangement. Shared ownership, you call it.
Maybe an idiot or lunatic would try to steal our artwork. But we can detect an idiot at the time we are making the deal with him.
By his behavior and the quality and level of his project, script/idea.
These all re red flags alerting to withdraw from a commission no matter what the promises are.
Not trusting or feeling secure about a possible commission the right thing to do is to excuse ourselves and withdraw from it before going further.
It saves time and money to everybody.

I am totally against upfront payments as I am against backend payments. These two procedures are prone to generate scammers.
Sooner or later.
Which is what we are trying to avoid and deter.
There are many other ways more effective.
An On hold deposit could be one. Or progressive payments. As soon pages, batches or steps of the work are made and send ( in low resolution), the payment is deposited.
With PayPal and other services like that payment can be deposited and sent out on minutes to any place all around the globe.

No excuses for upfront payments.
No excuses for backend payments.

[Kay]

The writer can give up after I've completed the pages. Sure, I can send them low res files, but I've already invested a lot of my time and work. Frankly, at that point I'd rather see the pages printed than not, at least I'd get some exposure. Yeah, I could post a thread like this one, here and other social media, but I'd get nothing out of it aside from warning other unsuspecting artists. Again, I'd rather wait in hope the writer decides to pay after all some fine day. I should stop now, I'm just giving them ideas.

[DCdraw]

Yeah, the other party can't do jack shit with the low res images but that still doesn't account for the time lost working on the project and not getting paid. Days, weeks, months...time=money. For someone who is living off of their freelance income it is a very unwise way to work. A month or so on a project, low res images sent, no response, no replies to emails and then what? Exactly.

Like I said, its a great filter and I honestly can't imagine freelancing all this time without it and it's never been an issue. It's not an issue of entitlement as much as being smart and covering one's ass.

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by DCdraw

Yeah, the other party can't do jack shit with the low res images but that still doesn't account for the time lost working on the project and not getting paid. Days, weeks, months...time=money. For someone who is living off of their freelance income it is a very unwise way to work. A month or so on a project, low res images sent, no response, no replies to emails and then what? Exactly.

Like I said, its a great filter and I honestly can't imagine freelancing all this time without it and it's never been an issue. It's not an issue of entitlement as much as being smart and covering one's ass.

Thing is we don't need to start working willy-nilly. WE got to take our preventions.
WE must know what is requested, who is requesting it and make a deal before start working.
READ the script. A guy who knows how to write a good script probably is not a scam. It will go against his reputation.
WE can agree partial payments, every week after sending 3 or 4 pages.
Easy for both sides.
WE can do whatever we want.
If somebody want to pay upfront for artwork or pages that are not already made he must be held responsible for the what he got. For good or bad.
And not be surprised by the outcome.