Go Back   Digital Webbing Forums > Talent Engine > Creator Community

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2006, 01:09 PM   #1
dano
.
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Penna
Posts: 535
dano has disabled reputation

Fine Arts Tracers!

We've all gone in circles about this in comics. Apparently, the fine art world has the same debates!
Is there a difference using this method for mass media repropuction as opposed to fine art where the painting IS (for all intents) the final value?

http://artnews.com/issues/article.asp?art_id=2020
"These days, photo-based painting is as common as rain and just as inevitable, as younger artists such as Nick Mauss, Lucy McKenzie, and Wilhelm Sasnal take up the practice and exploit it. Yet it often complicates the publicís understanding of art and can easily put painters who use photographic aids, including computers and projectors, on the defensive. The question is: why? Why should a painting based on a photograph be considered a less legitimate work of art than one painted from observation or one that is simply abstract? "
dano is offline   Reply With Quote
Connect With Facebook to "Like" This Thread

Old 06-05-2006, 01:46 PM   #2
theflash
Cary Kelley
 
theflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the darkness where it's nice and cool
Posts: 1,555
theflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to beholdtheflash is a splendid one to behold

Quote:
Why should a painting based on a photograph be considered a less legitimate work of art than one painted from observation or one that is simply abstract? "
my personal opinion is that it's less legitimate because the artist isn't using talent, they're piggybacking on the talent of others. anyone can trace. not everyone can draw.
__________________
You don't have to stay anywhere forever.

The Dynagirl Webcomic is FREE!
Red Handed Studios! l Blog
theflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 01:50 PM   #3
dano
.
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Penna
Posts: 535
dano has disabled reputation

They're obviously doing much more to the image than just tracing it. There's the whole painting aspect with color and value
dano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 02:08 PM   #4
Rob Norton
apprentice of the pencil
 
Rob Norton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: utah
Posts: 3,990
Rob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to beholdRob Norton is a splendid one to behold

is it still "bad" when an artist traces over his OWN photo referrence?
Rob Norton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 02:10 PM   #5
Calloway
I haz cookiez an kool-aid
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 9,266
Calloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud of

ohhh technique woooo...please, to me art involves imagination and if they have the skills to copy a picture of a house, their lack of artistic imagination prevents them from actual expression by imagining a house and painting that.
Calloway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 02:14 PM   #6
j giar
Has nothing to add.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Elyria, Ohio
Posts: 5,975
j giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud of

Must...fight..tempta-tion...to..be..pulled.... into....thread!
O.k. Just this once. It's more of a personal preference than anything. There are just so many opinions and loop holes and "what ifs" on this subject. From my own personal stand point. The beginning of the article in which the artist took the initial photo's themselves and then used that as the material..I find that acceptable. For me! Like I said, there are just to many opinions. Art is a creative process and a form of expression. And that form takes many shapes.
__________________
MySpace and ChelzoStudio
Quote:
Originally Posted by L Jamal
Panel continuity and storytelling should be the primary objective of all GOOD comic book art.
j giar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 02:17 PM   #7
dano
.
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Penna
Posts: 535
dano has disabled reputation

Quote:
their lack of artistic imagination prevents them from actual expression by imagining a house and painting that
Heh! That pretty much eliminates 9/10s of all art prior to 1860!
dano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 03:17 PM   #8
JasonM
Inmate of the Asylum!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,717
JasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the rough

Is doing a cover of a song considered "music"? If it's a cover, does that mean talent wasn't involved? If so, theres a lot of talentless musicians out there with careers steeped in covers.

Anyother way to look at it is if it takes no talent to do, then it should be easy to put to the test. Take a sampling of what are considered some decent works by photo-artists and take some random designers (or whoever) that know photoshop and set them to work. If they have a working knowledge of the program they should be able to replicate the work with little touble. If the average photoshopper can replicate the best of the photo-artist's work, then yeah, I'd have to agree it's not art.

But as it stands, I've yet to see someone with just working knowledge of PS create museum quality work.
__________________
RISE OF THE FALLEN DVD: A secret society determined to save the world - whether we want them to, or not!
http://www.asylumink.net/ellium
http://myspace.com/asylumink

Join the Ellium mailing list!
The_Ellium-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
JasonM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 03:19 PM   #9
JasonM
Inmate of the Asylum!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,717
JasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGreenMan
ohhh technique woooo...please, to me art involves imagination and if they have the skills to copy a picture of a house, their lack of artistic imagination prevents them from actual expression by imagining a house and painting that.
Wouldn't this eliminate all art based on direct observation? (good by mona lisa!)
__________________
RISE OF THE FALLEN DVD: A secret society determined to save the world - whether we want them to, or not!
http://www.asylumink.net/ellium
http://myspace.com/asylumink

Join the Ellium mailing list!
The_Ellium-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
JasonM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 04:09 PM   #10
Calloway
I haz cookiez an kool-aid
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 9,266
Calloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud of

Heh. Davinci had his own flare in all his art that distinctly made it DaVinci. None of his art is Photo realistic. Just thought I'd point that out.

Now as far as this being done before the advent of the camera...I'm pretty sure they didn't consider it art, it was done to keep a record of important people. Sue observation comes into play. Observe remember and use. Copying from a picture is not art in my humble opinion. If that were so then making rims in a cnc from a cad drawing must be art..no matter how many you make. Or copying notes from a board..that must be art...ah, making the taco at taco bell just like the picture..NOW that must be art...please. To me art involves imagination along with technique and the lack there of just shows me something I can walk out my door and see live.
Calloway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 04:20 PM   #11
JasonM
Inmate of the Asylum!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,717
JasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the rough

I think the best way to tackle this would be a couple simple questions. First, is photography art?
__________________
RISE OF THE FALLEN DVD: A secret society determined to save the world - whether we want them to, or not!
http://www.asylumink.net/ellium
http://myspace.com/asylumink

Join the Ellium mailing list!
The_Ellium-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
JasonM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 04:27 PM   #12
Calloway
I haz cookiez an kool-aid
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 9,266
Calloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud of

Sure, if it conveys something IMO. I take photos that get an imagination going. Snaphots that are composed right and of things or situations that photos would normally not be taken. Of course taking the picture then painitng it seems a bit redundant.
Calloway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 04:37 PM   #13
JasonM
Inmate of the Asylum!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,717
JasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the roughJasonM is a jewel in the rough

You're automatically assuming that if a photo was used that a painting would only be a direct translation, nothing added to the end result. Isn't it just as likely that even with a photo, that during the process (whatever the process is taking the photo and converting it to another medium) something is altered? possibly even improoved?

And what if the artist doesn't show the photo they took, only the painting, wouldn't that make the painting just as relavant as the photo, not merely "redundant"? Even if it is shown, if a depiction of a scene is art, then wouldn't showing the scene in a variety of mediums also be art? Does an oil painting of a house become less relavant if the artist does the same scene again in watercolor?
__________________
RISE OF THE FALLEN DVD: A secret society determined to save the world - whether we want them to, or not!
http://www.asylumink.net/ellium
http://myspace.com/asylumink

Join the Ellium mailing list!
The_Ellium-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
JasonM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 04:39 PM   #14
Calloway
I haz cookiez an kool-aid
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 9,266
Calloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud ofCalloway has much to be proud of

Let me go get one of my pictures and put a dot on it in photoshop. Hell I'll just take a picture of a house, nothing special. Let me add that dot though, it'll be art! Woo hoo
Calloway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006, 04:40 PM   #15
j giar
Has nothing to add.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Elyria, Ohio
Posts: 5,975
j giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud ofj giar has much to be proud of

See! So many opinions...so many loop holes.....so many what if's......so little time.
__________________
MySpace and ChelzoStudio
Quote:
Originally Posted by L Jamal
Panel continuity and storytelling should be the primary objective of all GOOD comic book art.
j giar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1997-2015 Digital Webbing, LLC