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Old 06-30-2006, 08:40 PM   #1
Eliseu Gouveia
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Lightbulb Does anyone actually LIKE Superheroines?

Comics is a boy´s club.
It just can´t be helped, too many years of editorial policy scared away the female audience straight into the arms of manga.

So, I´m stuck feeling like an utter freak.
Not only do I like superheroines but I actually prefer them to their male counterparts. i´ll take Stargirl over Superman without a flinch.
Storm over Captain America any day of the week.
So, you can imagine my shock when I read this little excerpt of an interview a few hours ago.
Quote:

http://www.newsarama.com/general/deodato/interview.html

NRAMA: When did that start for you? Was it Wonder Woman?

MD: Yeah. I heard a friend of mine was doing something for DC. Somebody from the same agent that was representing me was doing something for a big company, and I was not. So I was jealous! I said, "Hey, he's doing it. I want to do something for them too!" Then they say, "Well, there is this Wonder Woman comic. They need an artist, but it doesn't sell well. Nobody wants to do that." I said, "I want to! I want to!"

But you know, I hate drawing women. I prefer drawing monsters and stuff like that. But I said, "I want to do it!"

NRAMA: You hate drawing women?

MD: Yeah. Even though, for a good part of my career, I am recognized for drawing women.

NRAMA: So how did you get the Wonder Woman job?

MD: Again, I did two big pages, colored, to show what I could do. And they hired me.

NRAMA: That two-pages technique came in handy more than once.

MD: Yeah!

NRAMA: So you got to draw Wonder Woman, even though you'd rather draw monsters.

MD: I got to do Wonder Woman. In three months, the sales doubled and tripled or something like that. Because they gave me freedom to do whatever I want. It was not said, but I kept doing things and I kept making her more ... um ... hot? Wearing thongs. I talked to Bill Loebs at a convention, and he said his friends call his run on Wonder Woman with me "porn Wonder Woman." (laughter) OK. Thanks for letting me know. But back then it worked. Every time the bikini was smaller, the sales get higher.
My jaw dropped to the floor.
I really am alone in the universe.
Or am I?
In the interest of finding out if my preference for female leads is a cosmic singularity, I decided to elaborated this cute little questionnaire

- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?


- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?


- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?


Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?


Female posters´feedback is more than welcomed, but what I´m really-REALLY curious is to peek into the psyche of my fellow male posters (creators and readers) and their views on the superwomen´s place in the world of comics.
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?
yes. I currently read Birds of Prey, Catwoman and Wonder Woman. I was reading Spider-Girl til they cancelled it. I originally got them for my wife, to get her into comics, and I got hooked on them. They are just really good books usually. Especially BOP. Gail Simone is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?
It would depend on who was writing her. I'd love to see a regualr Power Girl series written by Simone or Amanda Conner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&a and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?
Yeah, I suppose. I'm and equal opportunity reader. If the story/art are good, I don't care if the character is male, female or otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?
because traditionally, men have tended to dominate comics creative side. and for the most part, men can't write a believable female character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?
It would be created by female creators. female creators could give the character that air of believability that a man can't, no matter how good he is.
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:08 PM   #3
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don't really got the time to go into detail right now, but yeah, good comics is good comics, whether staring a man or lady.

off the top of the head:
- Catwoman (especially when Peter Woods was on)
- NYX
- Runaways (does that count?)
- Harley Quin
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:19 PM   #4
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If you really wanna know...

- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?


Yes. I have done it before and I would do it again. Mainly because the ones I have read I did enjoy a lot. And I'm talking about the story not the nice artwork. (I mean, yeah I did really like Amanda Conner's atwork for that Power Girl story in JSA, but the story was also a big draw for me too... Mainly becuase I wanted to know what the hell she was!) Blacklight is a fun read, and so is Spider Man loves Mary Jane. And let's not forget that Kitty Pryde is my favorite X-Man.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?


Shw had her own book already, and that's Stargirl. But if she got her own book again, I'd buy it again. She's a fun character... Pretty much all there is to that.

- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)? Why?

I very much do. You see, woman are a different beast from men. Different rules are applied. Take for example, the fore mentioned Power Girl... Having issues with all the guys looking at her chest and all the girls hating her, and no one taking her seriously. Because she's a woman, there are things that she has to deal with than men do not... Does Batman ever have cramps? Does Hawkman ever have to deal as a lesser because he's a man? Does Superman have to worry that he might be pregnant? Selena Kyle quitting something she loves, being Catwoman, for something she loves more, her daughter... Thats something that's not brought up in your every day issue of Ion. And for that matter, can Spider-Man use his sexuality against a villian like Spider-Woman can?

It's different rules and just by the nature of comics in history it's still fertile ground for story exploration. And that fascinates me.

Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?

Partly I think it's due to the over sexualism of the females, where they are portrayed as more of a protrait of the writer's ideal of an attractive woman is as opposed to actual characterization. And worse than that, especially from a male point of view, it's very easy to turn a female into a Mary Sue of sorts, where they do no wrong. Then a writer puts their viewpoints in there, be it politcal or social and suddenly... They become very unappealing characters.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?


Well, right now I AM working on a superherione book. (Though creator owned) So when I get further along with it, I'll let you know what I do...
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:50 PM   #5
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- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?: Absolutely. My answer to "why" would be "why not?" My current favorite is Birds of Prey.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?: Again, sure, but my decision to buy would probably be based more on the creative team than the character choice.

- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?: Again, what's not to like? Who doesn't respond to pretty girls?

Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?: That's an artifact of history, and has changed a great deal.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?:

That's the big question. A series won't live or die based on the fact that it's lead is a woman (unless it's some cheesy t & a book.), but on the quality of the art and story.

Here's my pet peave: If you are going to write a woman, have her act like a woman. Women approach things differently. If you think differently, go to an NBA game, and then a WNBA game: The style of play, cooperation, it's all subtly different. I'm sure it's like that in every arena of life. If nothing else, a woman is usually going to prioritize differently than a man would, and approach things from a different angle. Just don't have your women characters act like male characters.
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Old 06-30-2006, 10:03 PM   #6
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I've always liked the super gals, even bought the Starfire sereis when I was a kid and it came out in the 70s (for those not familiar with the title, this has nothing to do with Teen Titans. Allegedly this is only the third title that DC put out where the lead character was a woman- which is suprising since it didn't come out until 79 or so).
Problem is, many characters of the past seem to be just a counterpart to male characters: Supergirl, Batgirl, She-hulk, etc. So it's easy to see them as second stringers. But I'll take She-hulk over Hulk. Current book is a great read and I love the old Byrne comics.

- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why? Yeah. a good character is a good character period.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why? I'm reading She-Hulk whenver I can get it. Would like to check out the Supergirl book as well.

- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?Of course, but the cheesecake stuff seems kind of silly when you look back at the 'bad girl' phase.

Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that? Make them individuals and stand apart from their male counterparts. Kind of like what they did with Power Girl.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?
Don't pander to the fanboys who want to see a female character run around in a thong!! In the long run I think you'll just drive away your core audience.
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Old 06-30-2006, 10:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?
Wonder Woman for a period during Messner-Loebs' run because I was following him. The Maxx was the only original image book I actually liked.

Birds of Prey, originally because Dixon was writing, but I've stayed with the book for a while now. Still enjoying it except for all the damn martial arts minutiae bullshit.

Promethea because the idea is brilliant.

Basically writing drew me to all the books.

Quote:
- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?
See above.
Quote:
- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?
It all works. I'd prefer less obtrusive powers for female characters. It's fine to have Power Girl, Supergirl, She-Hulk etc, but there is often a tendency to write "man with breasts" adventures. In general I would prefer female heroes to fall along the lines of Jean Grey, Saturn Girl, Invisible Woman, Shadowcat etc. Being equal to a male character and being the same are two different things.

Quote:
Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?
Because "The Hero" is classically a male. Men fight wars, men take hero's journeys, men are more often found in classical mythology in that role. You change it by making it work inside of convention. Don't compensate. As I said above, do not write a male character in a female body. (See "bad girl" trend. )

Quote:
You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?
I don't care. Write good stories. I realize that's not what you are looking for here, but I think marketing is for the birds...keeping it polite (I'm tempted to quote Bill Hicks right about now. ) (Yes I know, necessary...but personally if 50 people read a story of mine and took something from it and I didn't make a dime, I'd be happy)

Quote:
Female posters´feedback is more than welcomed, but what I´m really-REALLY curious is to peek into the psyche of my fellow male posters (creators and readers) and their views on the superwomen´s place in the world of comics.
I've already made some comments about "bad girl" fans in the Member's area. I honestly think that some guys who are overly into "strong" (by which the industry actually means badass and I do not really consider that the same) female characters often have issues with women treading into the worship/resentment arena.
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Old 06-30-2006, 10:43 PM   #8
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- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?

No. I got into (and out of) comics in the mid '80's and early 90's - not exactly the glory years for quality in comics. My brother did buy Catwoman and Wonder Woman and I read them, but I didn't specifically buy any.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?

Not really.
- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?

Sure. Women are much more interesting than men.
Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?
Because mostly men/boys create/buy comics and generally speaking men don't like seeing women involved with violence. There are still restrictions on women soldiers in combat in the armed forces because men don't want to see women hurt someone or be hurt.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?

I agree with the poster who said hire a woman writer. I'm not interested in what a man thinks a woman would do in a certain situation. I'm interested in what a woman might do.
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Old 07-01-2006, 02:03 AM   #9
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The first comic I ever started collecting was Catwoman

I think the female characters are getting stronger character-wise, even though some people may still draw them or think of them as sex objects.
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Old 07-01-2006, 10:53 AM   #10
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- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?


Witchblade and peter davids supergirl were it. I heard it had interesting character development.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?


Any so long as it had REAL character and stories.

- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?


No preference. What strikes a cord isn't the gender but the motivation. That and what makes them unique be it a power, an attitude, the same stuff I look for in male leads.

Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?

People write what they know and a male writer generally knows males better. We need either more female writers or male writers to get over that mental stumbling block.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?


Same as a male, a good story and good art. With those two you can have it be a little woman mouse or alien asexual being and it can sell.
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Old 07-01-2006, 11:17 AM   #11
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I agree in the thought that due to bad editorial decissions through out the industry, comics scared most of the female readers into the arms of manga. With th ebulk of the buyers of comics being male..the bulk of the books catered to them. Large breasts. Skintight, revealing outfits. More T&A than a Howard Stern broadcast. It's no wonder they left. As men we don't see any problem with it because we're thinking with other parts of our body. But let's look at it from a female perspective. What if 80% of all comics were about half naked men in skintight outfits, overcompensating there...um..materials? Would we as males quit reading? I know I would!(I can't even begin to think about seeing Brokeback Mountain.) And if another form of sequential art showed up offering more than that, would you not move in that direction? I'm not preaching as I'm probably stating the obvious. That being said. My favorites, at least at one time or another, I was a big fan of several Darkhorse titles. Believe it or not but... Barb Wire, Ghost and Agents of Law. They all had strong, believable female characters..at least in the beginning. From the male, hormone side. When I was a kid catwoman hands down.(It's the outfit ALRIGHT!) But from a male, more intelligent side. Wonder Woman. My oldest daughter's first book, when she was first learning to read many moons ago, was a childrens book about the legend of Wonder Woman. I have always stressed the importance of strong character to both of my daughters. It may be a mans world..but that doesn't mean you have to live by their rules. The T&A Wonder Woman is an insult to all of the character and strength of such a noble icon. Even though she didn't start out that way. As by the look of some of her earlier covers in the beginning.(I will admit, though, I was in love with Linda Carter as a kid. She was shiney in all the right places..yes I'm a pig to.) Kingdom Come presents her as how she should be. Proud, Strong, kicking ass and taking names. I'm done! Thanks! Jim G
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Old 07-01-2006, 02:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecha
I think the female characters are getting stronger character-wise, even though some people may still draw them or think of them as sex objects.
True. Awhile back I read a column about how poorly action films with female leads do at the box office and the columnist said (the quote stuck with me because I enjoy writing female characters):
Quote:
"The problem is that women in lead roles in action films are written as men with breasts."
By and large, I think the same thing has been true in comics, though it seems to be slowly improving on both parts, which is a great thing... I do love a well-written female lead.

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Old 07-01-2006, 07:38 PM   #13
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- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?


Generally it's the style of drawing that tags me to buy the book, as for females, I actually only pick up an issue or two of a female lead. Most of the books I'll tag are team issues which offer variety in the heros/heroines instead of basing the whole story on one persons troubles.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?


Red Monica was first to come to mind. Not because of the torpedos she's got or the mad style, but because of exageration of line. Only in fantasy would we find a girl that looks like that. In a crowd of a thousand she'd stand out.

- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?


Superheroines work well. The newer Catwoman outfit as well as the concepts for Batgirl. I like slinky, but then I'm a guy over 40...If a female role model can take it to the mat, then have at it!

Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?

Males embody the worship god status of what evry young lad dreams. The strong,powerful,not to be picked on in the schoolyard, anti-bully guy. And the superpowers don't hurt either. Personally the books can go the way of the 50's and fight the dark side of evil terrorist suporting world powers or it can address the everyday aspects of life and it's problems.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?


What's the end result? Sales or art? If it's sales than less clothing is more. If it's art, then the whole team needs to be in the grove to put out something that people will remember, something that will stand the test of time and find it's place in comic art history.
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
Comics is a boy´s club.
It just can´t be helped, too many years of editorial policy scared away the female audience straight into the arms of manga.

So, I´m stuck feeling like an utter freak.
Not only do I like superheroines but I actually prefer them to their male counterparts. i´ll take Stargirl over Superman without a flinch.
Storm over Captain America any day of the week.
So, you can imagine my shock when I read this little excerpt of an interview a few hours ago.


My jaw dropped to the floor.
I really am alone in the universe.
Or am I?
In the interest of finding out if my preference for female leads is a cosmic singularity, I decided to elaborated this cute little questionnaire

- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?


- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?


- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?


Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?


Female posters´feedback is more than welcomed, but what I´m really-REALLY curious is to peek into the psyche of my fellow male posters (creators and readers) and their views on the superwomen´s place in the world of comics.
I dont very much like any super heros. So taking that for the get go, here goes my answers.

- Have you ever bought a comic starring a superheroine in the leading role?
Why?


Black Orchid, which is very, very good. The girl in the story isnt miraculous looking and even though shes naked through out most of the story, it isnt erotic because she has no genitals or even nipples. It looks like shes wearing a full body purple suit.

- Is there any superheroine you´d consider buying if she got a regular series?
Why?


When I was younger I used to want to read more stories about storm growing up in africa, being treated like a goddess. Acctually, that could still be interesting.

- Do you LIKE the very idea of superheroines (and I´m not addressing the t&w and the cheesecake but the very idea of a woman fighting the good fight)?
Why?


No. I'm not much for superhero stories in general and the idea of reading a comic book that is specifically about the super hero in question can get dry. I dont mind the idea of women doing what they feel is best for them, but having them do the same thing that every other super hero does would be boring.

Why do you think superheroines have always taken a backseat to their male counterparts and what would you do to change that?

Because their books are based on large breasts, small waists and because most of the time they are nothing but a supporting charecter. You want sales to go up on a book about girls? Make it more practical. Realistic bodies, a story that means something significant to the reader and ways for men/boys to relate to the woman/girl in the story.

You are assigned to work on helping launch a superheroine comic.
What steps would you take to ensure that the book was a success?


I dont know. Since sex sells, I'd probably do everything I hate and make her a stripper by night and a superhero by day. Haha.
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:46 PM   #15
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