Go Back   Digital Webbing Forums > Talent Engine > Creator Community

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-10-2006, 02:33 AM   #1
Saracroft
Sway in Pleather.
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 24
Saracroft is on a distinguished road

Question Trapping???

Hey all! I have a few questions about trapping.
See, I don't trap my colors. I never have. So I don't know a lot about it.
I just know that it was first described to me, I was told that it took like 6 hours of something to complete. That when I decided that I wasn't going to do it. LOL I don't have that kind of attention span.

So, what exactly does trapping do for your colors? Is it nesseccary to trap colors? Or is it just as fine not to? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Saracroft is offline   Reply With Quote
Connect With Facebook to "Like" This Thread

Old 08-10-2006, 08:01 AM   #2
Splash!
Shop smart-shop S-Mart!!!
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 749
Splash! is a jewel in the roughSplash! is a jewel in the roughSplash! is a jewel in the rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracroft
Hey all! I have a few questions about trapping.
See, I don't trap my colors. I never have. So I don't know a lot about it.
I just know that it was first described to me, I was told that it took like 6 hours of something to complete. That when I decided that I wasn't going to do it. LOL I don't have that kind of attention span.

So, what exactly does trapping do for your colors? Is it nesseccary to trap colors? Or is it just as fine not to? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
I have never heard of such a thing, but I am interested, does anybody know what this means?
__________________
Splash!
Splash! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 09:08 AM   #3
BKMDog
Registered Trademark
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,224
BKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to beholdBKMDog is a splendid one to behold

As far as I know, what with modern, digital presses, trapping is no longer something to be concerned about. I'm not even sure I ever understood what it meant and why it was necessary, and never really worried about it. By the time I got into using a computer for doing art / illustration ( not all that long ago ), as I said, you didn't need to worry about it. A local guy that I commune with who's a prepress maniac told me that and he's been into doing digital work via computer for output to film and print since day one.

His print jobs for things like magazine ads, beer companies - he designs killer photo-related art for billboards and their packaging - and major food companies like Nestle for example, always look amazing.

But hey, if anybody has any better info than that, I'm all ears---
BKMDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 10:18 AM   #4
eDuke
Registered User
 
eDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,066
eDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to beholdeDuke is a splendid one to behold

http://www.stickmangraphics.com/trap.htm
and a more detailed explanation of trapping and why:
http://www.trapping.org/tips.html
__________________
Ed Dukeshire / Digital Webbing / Letterer
Twitter: eDukeDW | Instagram: ed.dukeshire
eDuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 10:55 AM   #5
L Jamal
ljamal.com
 
L Jamal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,829
L Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud of

so you don't have to read all the last link Ed posted
Quote:
Trapping is not required in the four color process, when overprinting is used or when either black or white margins are placed around the object.
Quote:
Black frames are used in the borders of colored areas in comic books.
__________________
L Jámal Walton
LETTERER/ COLORIST/ INKER
LOGO, WEB and GRAPHIC DESIGN

FOR ALL YOUR WEB AND PRINT NEEDS
PORTFOLIO
L Jamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 11:21 AM   #6
crozonia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TORONTO, Canada
Posts: 712
crozonia will become famous soon enough

I still trap my ink work. It's still good to know. and takes less than a minute to do. Don't blame your printer when your black inks aren't as crisp as the stuff you see in Top COW, or if the inks shift. So many people ask me who my printer is when they have a close look at my comic book. And while my printer is top notch, it's the trapping and support method that makes my inks look so sharp.

A couple of things.
-Black Ink layer should ALWAYS be 100 K. Anything less, and you get a screen.
- No Anti Alias on your black ink! Convert to bitmap and bring it back!
-ALWAYS muliply the Ink Layer on top of the coloured art.
- Have a support layer that is a couple of pixels thinner than the ink layer. This traps the lineart. Rule of thumb - don't trust technology!
- The support layer I use is normal settings - 60,40,40,0 for rich black inks. You can play around with this to give you a warmer or cooler black ink.

Jim
__________________
Jim Su
Artist and CG Modeller
The Art of ReBoot
Crozonia is on sale NOW!
www.beach-studios.com
http://www.crozoniacomic.blogspot.com
My work on Matchbox 2006

Last edited by crozonia; 08-10-2006 at 11:27 AM.
crozonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 11:25 AM   #7
crozonia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TORONTO, Canada
Posts: 712
crozonia will become famous soon enough

If you go to any fast food restaurant, usually the printing on drink cups is very shifty but are great examples of professional trapping inks and over print methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKMDog
As far as I know, what with modern, digital presses, trapping is no longer something to be concerned about. I'm not even sure I ever understood what it meant and why it was necessary, and never really worried about it. By the time I got into using a computer for doing art / illustration ( not all that long ago ), as I said, you didn't need to worry about it. A local guy that I commune with who's a prepress maniac told me that and he's been into doing digital work via computer for output to film and print since day one.

His print jobs for things like magazine ads, beer companies - he designs killer photo-related art for billboards and their packaging - and major food companies like Nestle for example, always look amazing.

But hey, if anybody has any better info than that, I'm all ears---
__________________
Jim Su
Artist and CG Modeller
The Art of ReBoot
Crozonia is on sale NOW!
www.beach-studios.com
http://www.crozoniacomic.blogspot.com
My work on Matchbox 2006
crozonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 11:45 AM   #8
Saracroft
Sway in Pleather.
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 24
Saracroft is on a distinguished road

Okay, so (let me see if I got this straight)...Trapping is good, but not nesseccary. Especially since I'm dealing with coming books. I don't have any areas of solid color touching one another without being bordered by black lineart. The black lineart itself acts as the trap.
Right?
Saracroft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 11:52 AM   #9
Kep!
Mad Genius
 
Kep!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ok, maybe just a little ticked off, not actually mad.
Posts: 8,378
Kep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud ofKep! has much to be proud of

Like the man said, it takes less than a minute and CAN make the difference of seperating the good from the great. Hell, not that hard to write macros.
Kep! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 01:03 PM   #10
illojik
a.k.a. Jason Embury
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 220
illojik will become famous soon enough

I've got an action in photoshop for anyone who wants it. just shoot me an email. it sets up your files for coloring for you, including a trap layer underneath your lineart layer (some call this an undercolor layer), and a color hold layer over top of your lineart layer. Nothing easier than opening an inked page, dropping it into your page template and hitting play on an action The results are unmistakable. Also, in PS you can go to Image/Trap, and select .5 points on your final CMYK files. Lots of pros do this now as well as the undercolor layer beneath the lineart. For pages straight from pencil work, you don't need an undercolor layer, all you have to do is use the Image/Trap feature after you've flattened your file. those are some good articles Ed linked to though, worth your time
__________________
"if you talk, you better walk, you better back your sh!# up....."

The mandatory portfolio link, click me, click me...
illojik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 02:10 PM   #11
L Jamal
ljamal.com
 
L Jamal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,829
L Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud of

Quote:
Originally Posted by crozonia
A couple of things.
-Black Ink layer should ALWAYS be 100 K. Anything less, and you get a screen.
- No Anti Alias on your black ink! Convert to bitmap and bring it back!
-ALWAYS muliply the Ink Layer on top of the coloured art.
- Have a support layer that is a couple of pixels thinner than the ink layer. This traps the lineart. Rule of thumb - don't trust technology!
- The support layer I use is normal settings - 60,40,40,0 for rich black inks. You can play around with this to give you a warmer or cooler black ink.
This is not trapping, it's underprinting. It's totally different. Underprinting produces a rich black and is necessry for all full color process printing.

Trapping is mostly used for spot colors when you're not using full color process.

Multiplying your ink layer can produce over saturated ink levels.
__________________
L Jámal Walton
LETTERER/ COLORIST/ INKER
LOGO, WEB and GRAPHIC DESIGN

FOR ALL YOUR WEB AND PRINT NEEDS
PORTFOLIO
L Jamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 03:24 PM   #12
crozonia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TORONTO, Canada
Posts: 712
crozonia will become famous soon enough

Quote:
Have a support layer that is a couple of pixels thinner than the ink layer. This traps the lineart.
This part is trapping your undercolour to your inks. That's what we're talking about, no?
You want sharp 100 K lineart. The trapped undercolour prevents your lineart from shifting.
As for oversaturation, that's why the undercolour is 60,40,40,0. That's a safe threshold.
__________________
Jim Su
Artist and CG Modeller
The Art of ReBoot
Crozonia is on sale NOW!
www.beach-studios.com
http://www.crozoniacomic.blogspot.com
My work on Matchbox 2006
crozonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 03:59 PM   #13
L Jamal
ljamal.com
 
L Jamal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,829
L Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud of

The purpose of the decreasing the selection is to keep the underprinting color (60,40,40 in your case) from showing if the black plate has a slight shift. Because comics have black ink bordering most colors trapping is not needed in most cases as the article ed linked to pointed out. Underprinting blacks and trapping are 2 different subjects. With trapping you are concerned about how shift in the non black plates will effect colors, so you do knockouts and overprinting to stop color bleed. If you are coloring a comic with no black line art (like the most recent Plastic Man series) then traping is important. Otherwise, you just need to worry about underprinting your blacks correctly.
__________________
L Jámal Walton
LETTERER/ COLORIST/ INKER
LOGO, WEB and GRAPHIC DESIGN

FOR ALL YOUR WEB AND PRINT NEEDS
PORTFOLIO
L Jamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 04:34 PM   #14
crozonia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TORONTO, Canada
Posts: 712
crozonia will become famous soon enough

Okay - having reread the first post, the question was trapping colours. But I hope someone learned something about lineart preparation!
__________________
Jim Su
Artist and CG Modeller
The Art of ReBoot
Crozonia is on sale NOW!
www.beach-studios.com
http://www.crozoniacomic.blogspot.com
My work on Matchbox 2006
crozonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 07:00 PM   #15
Biofungus
Not for your amusement
 
Biofungus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nega-Earth
Posts: 21,479
Biofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant futureBiofungus has a brilliant future

Cro: are you sending layered files to your printer? It sounds like you are. A composite tiff or PDF are most likely your best bet, because you don't have to worry about the printer mucking around with individual features (layers) of your art.

For the record: I always thought trapping was used on the non-black colors because they used to print the colors first, then the black, but they couldn't print them together because the black ink would bleed into the color otherwise. (IOW, if they printed at the same time, the black edge would bump up against the colored edge and either bleed, or there would be a halo around it because of shrinking the black areas to prevent bleeding).
__________________
When you feel that you're in danger, being threatened by a stranger. When it looks like you might take a lickin'.

He will drink the super sauce and throw the bad guys for a loss, just ca-all, for Super Chicken!
Biofungus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1997-2015 Digital Webbing, LLC